60´ question
thats what i have been told too but in my experience the last time at the track it was not
2.2 12.9 112
2.1 12.8 112
2.0 12.7 112
1.9 12.5 113
1.9 12.4 114
so it almost seemed that every .1 i shaved off my 60ft thats exactly what i shaved off the 1/4 and every mph i gained shaved another .1
2.2 12.9 112
2.1 12.8 112
2.0 12.7 112
1.9 12.5 113
1.9 12.4 114
so it almost seemed that every .1 i shaved off my 60ft thats exactly what i shaved off the 1/4 and every mph i gained shaved another .1
It all depends on the car and your setup.. No two cars or setups are exactly the same no matter what anyone tells you. That could be true with an N/A engine, but with power adders its a totally different story.. And it depends on how fast you are running as to what kind of gains you will see. Just like weight...
thats what i have been told too but in my experience the last time at the track it was not
2.2 12.9 112
2.1 12.8 112
2.0 12.7 112
1.9 12.5 113
1.9 12.4 114
so it almost seemed that every .1 i shaved off my 60ft thats exactly what i shaved off the 1/4 and every mph i gained shaved another .1
2.2 12.9 112
2.1 12.8 112
2.0 12.7 112
1.9 12.5 113
1.9 12.4 114
so it almost seemed that every .1 i shaved off my 60ft thats exactly what i shaved off the 1/4 and every mph i gained shaved another .1
Last edited by Ed Wright; Jun 24, 2008 at 10:56 AM.
Last time at the track we went 1.40 60ft 9.81, second pass with a tire adjustment we went 1.34 60ft 9.64 ET. Not debating the subject, simply stating same track, same day, same lane , pass made within 2 hours of the 1st pass we gained over the 1:1 60ft to ET ratio.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kg4iujurWK8
Pass was N/A with a SBC, ladder bar car with a glide.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kg4iujurWK8
Pass was N/A with a SBC, ladder bar car with a glide.
If a car is not VERY consistent they will vary that much if you don't do a thing to the car. If the lines in the staging lanes are long your coolant and air temps are usually different enough to cause that much variation. Two hours is a lot of time between passes to make comparisons anyway. The da can often change that much in two hours. When we test it is always the same lane, just a few minutes between passes.
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From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
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As said above, every combo is different. The old saying, .1 = .2 has been around for a long time.
If you do find .1 on your 60' you can expect .15 off your 1/4. Any more, then you're lucky.
Any less, there's probably another issue that needs to be figured out.
Just like weight, 100lbs = .10. Nothing is cut in stone.
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As said above, every combo is different. The old saying, .1 = .2 has been around for a long time.
If you do find .1 on your 60' you can expect .15 off your 1/4. Any more, then you're lucky.
Any less, there's probably another issue that needs to be figured out.
Just like weight, 100lbs = .10. Nothing is cut in stone.
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As said above, every combo is different. The old saying, .1 = .2 has been around for a long time.
If you do find .1 on your 60' you can expect .15 off your 1/4. Any more, then you're lucky.
Any less, there's probably another issue that needs to be figured out.
Just like weight, 100lbs = .10. Nothing is cut in stone.
.
As said above, every combo is different. The old saying, .1 = .2 has been around for a long time.
If you do find .1 on your 60' you can expect .15 off your 1/4. Any more, then you're lucky.
Any less, there's probably another issue that needs to be figured out.
Just like weight, 100lbs = .10. Nothing is cut in stone.
.
The 100lbs = 1/10th applies only to lower hp cars. The more power you make, the less 100lbs means.
I have noticed that whatever I gain or lose in the 60 foot usually is what the end of the run sees. realisticially, I can go to the track, make test hits and run the car to the 1/8th and shut it off,because whatever has happened by the time I get to the 1/2 track point is all I am going to see.
I have yet to make a single chassis adjustment that effected the back 1/2 of the track's performance.
I have yet to make a single chassis adjustment that effected the back 1/2 of the track's performance.
I have noticed that whatever I gain or lose in the 60 foot usually is what the end of the run sees. realisticially, I can go to the track, make test hits and run the car to the 1/8th and shut it off,because whatever has happened by the time I get to the 1/2 track point is all I am going to see.
I have yet to make a single chassis adjustment that effected the back 1/2 of the track's performance.
I have yet to make a single chassis adjustment that effected the back 1/2 of the track's performance.
I wouldn't care if rick jones, jerry bickle or Jesus said it isn't possible to get more than 1:1 improvement from 60ft to 1/4 ET.
Our first pass last time out was 1.40 60ft, 9.81@139, second pass was 1.34 60ft 9.64@139, same mph, better 60ft, better than 1:1 improvement and I've seen it many times, on many cars, including my own.
It's really pointless to debate what he said she said stuff, when it's obviously been proven by people doing it countless times. If it only happens on the internet then I guess the time slips I read were make believe or incorrect.
Enough bench racing....moving on to the real world
Our first pass last time out was 1.40 60ft, 9.81@139, second pass was 1.34 60ft 9.64@139, same mph, better 60ft, better than 1:1 improvement and I've seen it many times, on many cars, including my own.
It's really pointless to debate what he said she said stuff, when it's obviously been proven by people doing it countless times. If it only happens on the internet then I guess the time slips I read were make believe or incorrect.
Enough bench racing....moving on to the real world
I have to agree with RAGENZ28. It does of course depend on the combo and where its peak is, but for a typical rule of thumb for a typical car I think the .1 gives .15 rule is pretty good. What does it take to be an "experienced racer"? I have close to 3,000 passes, maybe I can be your first to disagree?
I have to agree with RAGENZ28. It does of course depend on the combo and where its peak is, but for a typical rule of thumb for a typical car I think the .1 gives .15 rule is pretty good. What does it take to be an "experienced racer"? I have close to 3,000 passes, maybe I can be your first to disagree?
As I said:
"That is usually either coolant and/or inlet air temps not being controlled, or the car and/or driver not doing the same exact thing every time."
If you or your car can't repeat, many things can effect your times down track. Guess I should have stated that differently. I do know a lot of guys with a lot of passes under their belts, that still can't make two passes in a row the same. That is not the group of racers I was talking about.
What kind of racing do you do? What sanctioning body, and what class/eliminator?
If I 2-step my car at 3000 rpm with the no tirespin and cut a 1.40, use an airshifter for dead on rpm shifts, same IAT and coolant temp, same DA, and I run 10.50, what will I run with everything the exact same EXCEPT leaving at 4000 rpms this time and cutting a 1.30? A 10.40?
No sanctioning body, no class, just a lot of passes for fun. Oh well, I tried!
FWIW, I'm not argueing, just trying to understand!
No sanctioning body, no class, just a lot of passes for fun. Oh well, I tried!
FWIW, I'm not argueing, just trying to understand!
Last edited by B18B1LS1; Jun 24, 2008 at 05:45 PM.
I have not talked to one single experienced racer yet that will tell you different. Most guys cars will vary some if they just let them sit between passes. That is usually either coolant and/or inlet air temps not being controlled, or the car and/or driver not doing the same exact thing everytime.
I agree. I've been rnning my junk for a couple years, and havea lot of good data, the engineer in me really tries to make an educated adjustment, and evaluation of every change and every run to see what's getting me what, and I have seen one thing that is consistant as the day is long... whatever I get out of my car in the first 330 equates to X amount between there and the 660, and the back 1/2 of the track is very consistant.
Last yeat @ mir for pinks, I went 10.986 @ 123.4 one run, next day, other lane, car went 10.983@123.6 Only thing I did different, was shifted the car about 200 rpm higher the 2nd run. And even that, really didn't make a huge difference.
Both runs off the footbrake too fwiw.
I've done similar this year, 9.85 @ 137.2, 9.890 @ 136.8, only change here, was the car had very little time to cool off bewteen the 2 runs, and the DA went up 12 points from the 2 runs.
I know my car pretty well, what it does off the trialer is about all it's gonna do, it's a real fight to try to get any more out of it.
It likes adjustments that are made at home, it doesn't like to get messed with at the track. Moody bitch
