Looking for feedback on 416 w/TFS 225 dyno
Looking for feedback on 416 w/TFS 225 dyno Should these results be expected with this drivetrain?
Mod list:
SDPC 416
TFS 225
243/247 ~.620 LSL lobes
LG Pro Headers
Stock Ti
Vararam
42lb injectors
LPE 255lph
3.90 gears
ported FAST 90mm
ported LS2 tb
11:1 compression
Centerforce Dual Friction clutch
Centerforce 12" flywheel
Red line (478/459) was with a 238/242 113+2 ~.600 XER cam.
Blue line (485/455) is the cam listed above.
Results have been duplicated by two different tuners on three different dynos. I have talked with a couple vendors that suggest the headers are holding me back. However, I swapped cams based on the recommendation of a vendor and that gained me a whopping 7hp.
Here is the SAE graph with both cams.
STD graph
Mod list:
SDPC 416
TFS 225
243/247 ~.620 LSL lobes
LG Pro Headers
Stock Ti
Vararam
42lb injectors
LPE 255lph
3.90 gears
ported FAST 90mm
ported LS2 tb
11:1 compression
Centerforce Dual Friction clutch
Centerforce 12" flywheel
Red line (478/459) was with a 238/242 113+2 ~.600 XER cam.
Blue line (485/455) is the cam listed above.
Results have been duplicated by two different tuners on three different dynos. I have talked with a couple vendors that suggest the headers are holding me back. However, I swapped cams based on the recommendation of a vendor and that gained me a whopping 7hp.
Here is the SAE graph with both cams.
STD graph
Last edited by potac; Apr 24, 2009 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Updated graphs
I would guess the headers might hold back 10-15hp and the TI exhaust 10hp.
Seems like the compression might be lower than expected.I just finished a 418 ci with a 418ci TFS 225's 11.8-1 comp and a smaller 236/238 Cam with the same mods and made 490hp/475 torque on a mustang dyno which peaked at 5900rpm due to the small cam.
Seems like the compression might be lower than expected.I just finished a 418 ci with a 418ci TFS 225's 11.8-1 comp and a smaller 236/238 Cam with the same mods and made 490hp/475 torque on a mustang dyno which peaked at 5900rpm due to the small cam.
Originally Posted by Slowhawk
Seems like the compression might be lower than expected.I just finished a 418 ci with a 418ci TFS 225's 11.8-1 comp and a smaller 236/238 Cam with the same mods and made 490hp/475 torque on a mustang dyno which peaked at 5900rpm due to the small cam.
Sounds like you will have a good running car IMO. Theres probably going to be a couple little things to push you over the top of where your goals are. Which are? The cam you have isnt really big by any means but not small either. Seems like should be a good cam to drive and give you decent #'s at the track and dyno. Thats good you've tried different dyno's and tuners to get a good idea of where you really sit. Not everyone has that available to them. I think you should run the car at the track and get a good idea how it runs. Thats what everyone keeps telling me about my setup which isnt too far from yours.
I'd agree with Slowhawk the bigger header, better catback or maybe cutouts at the end of the midpipes. I would say upgrading to the 92mm ported fast will probably not net much of a gain. You could have a speed density tune and put a pipe in place of the MAF and thats shown a average of 5-10hp.
I'd agree with Slowhawk the bigger header, better catback or maybe cutouts at the end of the midpipes. I would say upgrading to the 92mm ported fast will probably not net much of a gain. You could have a speed density tune and put a pipe in place of the MAF and thats shown a average of 5-10hp.
I picked up 22rwhp when I went from LG 1 3/4 to Kooks 1 7/8 on my 416... Cutouts are worth another 10 to 15 over the Ti Catback with a stroker. Your gears are "hiding" 8 to 10rwhp... Doesnt matter how big the camshaft is... If it cant move the air it cant be 100% effective
BTW, according to my math your compression is right around 10.72:1 knowing how SDPC sets up their shortblocks.
Let me go look on the dyno and see if I can find my old graph and Ill post it up.
BTW, according to my math your compression is right around 10.72:1 knowing how SDPC sets up their shortblocks.
Let me go look on the dyno and see if I can find my old graph and Ill post it up.
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Verdad Gallardo The heads are 65cc which I believe is stock. However, I was wrong about the head gasket thickness. They are .041", not .052".
Looks like headers and cutouts may be the next mod on the list.
Looks like headers and cutouts may be the next mod on the list.
I am pretty close to sea level. My uncorrected numbers for the new cam were 501/469. The uncorrected numbers for the old cam were 505/484.
I think the heads were milled to 65cc, the pistons have a -10cc dish, and the head gasket was either .052 or .054". Is there an "easy" way to check compression to verify? Did that setup you built use 1-3/4" headers?
I think the heads were milled to 65cc, the pistons have a -10cc dish, and the head gasket was either .052 or .054". Is there an "easy" way to check compression to verify? Did that setup you built use 1-3/4" headers?
Do the math again.
I wouldn't worry about the LT's. LG's been saying for a long time that their 1 3/4 LT's make more power than 1 7/8. They even posted a bunch of dyno charts to prove it.
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: Oaktown, CA
I would be very unhappy if I didn't exceed 525 rwhp with that setup. A big motor with a big cam and fancy heads should make big power. What is rpm at power peak? What is afr, timing? Something is wrong.
I just picked up my car from getting tuned with the new cam listed above. The butt dyno is sure impressive. It pulls hard very hard. The tune feels spot on with no surge and a smooth idle. The A/F is 13:1 and the timing is 27 degrees. I still want 40 more rwhp 
On a side note, the Tick adjustable master cylinder works as advertised. Before it was installed, I could not shift above ~5500rpms. Now, every shift is smooth and easy. Great mod!
On a side note, the Tick adjustable master cylinder works as advertised. Before it was installed, I could not shift above ~5500rpms. Now, every shift is smooth and easy. Great mod!
Congrats on the buttmeter and TICK master. Drive the car enjoy it and do the above mods. Atleast your car doesnt surge and is smooth. I have 538rwhp/483rwtq with my setup and surges like a dog trying to dry itself off below 2k rpm.
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 1
From: Western Burbs of Detroit
Sorry Kevin, gotta clarify for you. LG posted numerous charts showing there 1 3/4 headers outperform the competitions 1 7/8 in making low end torque, while only losing 1 or 2 hp up top.
To the OP, your setup is bad ***, but is very soft on the bottom end. Considering you are using a slightly more aggressive cam and better flowing heads, also have 14 more cubes I am surprised at your results. Gears lose a couple hp, and you are missing a ud pully and ewp. With that being said I'd say your h/c selection with the 416 should be making in 525 rwhp 500 rwtq range. My little 402 did 517.3 and 513.8 rwtq. I would suggest you have your intakes inlet opened to 95 mm's and swap tb's to a rev extreme 95 mm tb. Terry Lewis can hook you up on the tb. When I swapped from ls2 90 mm tb to rev's 95mm I picked up 7 rwhp and 17 rwhp. Your catback is holding you back as well. What kind of car is this motor in? If its a vette then consider LGM's big 3. It flows very well. I picked up a nice amount of hp/tq vs my old bullets. Also the sound is a little more tolerable. I can hear my stereo and no more headaches lol. Sorry for the long rambling post, but I am just trying to help.
Please feel free to PM if you have any particular q's about my posted opinions, or my setup. Maybe we can figure it out.
More info needed to figure you compression
Head gasket thickness ?
Pistons -cc's
Heads cc size
Bore/Stroke
Sorry if I missed it but please repost for my benefit.
i have a similar lsl lobe on a 408, but with 235 heads.
i did 510 through a 5200 stall, 9 inch and slicks.
id expect the dyno #'s to be quite a bit higher for your setup.
have you ran it at the track?
dyno dont mean jack, IMO.
good tuning adgent, but you cant base what the car runs off a #.
i did 510 through a 5200 stall, 9 inch and slicks.
id expect the dyno #'s to be quite a bit higher for your setup.
have you ran it at the track?
dyno dont mean jack, IMO.
good tuning adgent, but you cant base what the car runs off a #.
Not sure what to say about your setup since there are many variables. I'll just post mine to let you compare.
06 A4 GTO
416 LS3
3.91 gears
built tranny
3200 stall
236/238 cam (VRX5, shout out for Vengeance
)
11.3 compression
2.5" catback (I dropped the catback for a pull and didn't gain any power)
ported fast 92
TFS 235
500/492
06 A4 GTO
416 LS3
3.91 gears
built tranny
3200 stall
236/238 cam (VRX5, shout out for Vengeance
)11.3 compression
2.5" catback (I dropped the catback for a pull and didn't gain any power)
ported fast 92
TFS 235
500/492
i have a similar lsl lobe on a 408, but with 235 heads.
i did 510 through a 5200 stall, 9 inch and slicks.
id expect the dyno #'s to be quite a bit higher for your setup.
have you ran it at the track?
dyno dont mean jack, IMO.
good tuning adgent, but you cant base what the car runs off a #.
i did 510 through a 5200 stall, 9 inch and slicks.
id expect the dyno #'s to be quite a bit higher for your setup.
have you ran it at the track?
dyno dont mean jack, IMO.
good tuning adgent, but you cant base what the car runs off a #.
Nice numbers on your setup. How does the stall affect the driveability of the car?
Not sure what to say about your setup since there are many variables. I'll just post mine to let you compare.
06 A4 GTO
416 LS3
3.91 gears
built tranny
3200 stall
236/238 cam (VRX5, shout out for Vengeance)
11.3 compression
2.5" catback (I dropped the catback for a pull and didn't gain any power)
ported fast 92
TFS 235
500/492
06 A4 GTO
416 LS3
3.91 gears
built tranny
3200 stall
236/238 cam (VRX5, shout out for Vengeance
)11.3 compression
2.5" catback (I dropped the catback for a pull and didn't gain any power)
ported fast 92
TFS 235
500/492