Dynoed H/C AFR's. I wanted more though!!
07-25-2009, 02:37 AM
#41
All dynos are different. They need to be calibrated at least yearly to be accurate so track times are still the best but dynos are reasonable. I still think you should call tony for a cam recommendation though. who knows he might say urs is great for what you want. You are starting to push the extreme edge of the intake too. Beyond that it is good.
And RICH thats good. If its a handheld I would hope to GOD they set it up that way. Rich wont damage just hurt fuel economy. Lean will damage rings and potentially valves and seats and pistons depending on how bad. I am sure they recoomend temporary tuning on them and not full time.
I believe you said you were in flordia at higher temps. Well what temp was the SAE compared to standard one has corrections and one doesn't. PV = MRT
And RICH thats good. If its a handheld I would hope to GOD they set it up that way. Rich wont damage just hurt fuel economy. Lean will damage rings and potentially valves and seats and pistons depending on how bad. I am sure they recoomend temporary tuning on them and not full time.
I believe you said you were in flordia at higher temps. Well what temp was the SAE compared to standard one has corrections and one doesn't. PV = MRT
07-25-2009, 03:33 AM
#42
This cam I have now is very streetable very good gas mileage when I get ready to sell it some get it. But I would like something a lil more powerful yes to wake up these heads I bought along with an ported fast. As u can see on the 2nd graph the handheld left alot on the table. I wanna thank Rev xtreme for the awsome tune. They know there stuff. If it wasn't for them I would still be on that stupid handheld tuner. Hey we live and learn right. I am taking my car back there as soon as I get more money haha.
07-25-2009, 03:37 AM
#43
All dynos are different. They need to be calibrated at least yearly to be accurate so track times are still the best but dynos are reasonable. I still think you should call tony for a cam recommendation though. who knows he might say urs is great for what you want. You are starting to push the extreme edge of the intake too. Beyond that it is good.
And RICH thats good. If its a handheld I would hope to GOD they set it up that way. Rich wont damage just hurt fuel economy. Lean will damage rings and potentially valves and seats and pistons depending on how bad. I am sure they recoomend temporary tuning on them and not full time.
I believe you said you were in flordia at higher temps. Well what temp was the SAE compared to standard one has corrections and one doesn't. PV = MRT
And RICH thats good. If its a handheld I would hope to GOD they set it up that way. Rich wont damage just hurt fuel economy. Lean will damage rings and potentially valves and seats and pistons depending on how bad. I am sure they recoomend temporary tuning on them and not full time.
I believe you said you were in flordia at higher temps. Well what temp was the SAE compared to standard one has corrections and one doesn't. PV = MRT
STANDARD Was 97.75 Degrees Humidity 30% STD 1.03
07-25-2009, 08:16 AM
#44
I'm not saying you should go this big,but I have ran cams 244/248 and it drove with no problems. It is all in the tune and how well he does. A 228/232 would give you more and drive with no problems. LG Motorsports g5x2 cam would wake you up,I ran it and it makes great power and drove flawless. I also ran the x3 and x4 cam from LG,x3 being the best of them all. Goodluck to ya.
07-25-2009, 10:51 AM
#45
Ok the hp and tq should be pretty similair then so you picked up a decent amount.
I am sure a 228/232 would probably be an awesome cam for what you want. I would have to agree
I am sure a 228/232 would probably be an awesome cam for what you want. I would have to agree
07-25-2009, 11:24 AM
#46
I didn't read through every post before I had to reply myself. I hate to say I told you so, but, I told you so man.
Do you recall in one of your threads where you asked for advice and I gave it? Others did too but you were dead set in your ideas. Now here you are as I knew you would, wondering how you can make the setup perform like it could have all along.
The first thing I said when you laid out your setup plans was to ditch the current cam. I don't know how many people told you to do that. You were so sure it would perform up to par. Never the less, here we are, and your disapointed and already looking at spending more money and having to tear into the car again.
No, you do not need a FAST setup like some have said. I as well as others made plenty of power and had the mph to back it up with the LS6 intake and a ported stock TB. What you need is the optimization that I stressed to you before I finally gave up and you went along your way with your plan. Then reality came knocking.
I know I may be coming off a bit harsh, but I'm blunt and not much on sugar coating. At least you were man enough to post your sub-par results after many of us told you the setup was less than ideal.
If your ready to listen, there are several of us that can help you get to where you want to be.
Do you recall in one of your threads where you asked for advice and I gave it? Others did too but you were dead set in your ideas. Now here you are as I knew you would, wondering how you can make the setup perform like it could have all along.
The first thing I said when you laid out your setup plans was to ditch the current cam. I don't know how many people told you to do that. You were so sure it would perform up to par. Never the less, here we are, and your disapointed and already looking at spending more money and having to tear into the car again.
No, you do not need a FAST setup like some have said. I as well as others made plenty of power and had the mph to back it up with the LS6 intake and a ported stock TB. What you need is the optimization that I stressed to you before I finally gave up and you went along your way with your plan. Then reality came knocking.
I know I may be coming off a bit harsh, but I'm blunt and not much on sugar coating. At least you were man enough to post your sub-par results after many of us told you the setup was less than ideal.
If your ready to listen, there are several of us that can help you get to where you want to be.
07-25-2009, 12:15 PM
#47
I didn't read through every post before I had to reply myself. I hate to say I told you so, but, I told you so man.
Do you recall in one of your threads where you asked for advice and I gave it? Others did too but you were dead set in your ideas. Now here you are as I knew you would, wondering how you can make the setup perform like it could have all along.
The first thing I said when you laid out your setup plans was to ditch the current cam. I don't know how many people told you to do that. You were so sure it would perform up to par. Never the less, here we are, and your disapointed and already looking at spending more money and having to tear into the car again.
No, you do not need a FAST setup like some have said. I as well as others made plenty of power and had the mph to back it up with the LS6 intake and a ported stock TB. What you need is the optimization that I stressed to you before I finally gave up and you went along your way with your plan. Then reality came knocking.
I know I may be coming off a bit harsh, but I'm blunt and not much on sugar coating. At least you were man enough to post your sub-par results after many of us told you the setup was less than ideal.
If your ready to listen, there are several of us that can help you get to where you want to be.
Do you recall in one of your threads where you asked for advice and I gave it? Others did too but you were dead set in your ideas. Now here you are as I knew you would, wondering how you can make the setup perform like it could have all along.
The first thing I said when you laid out your setup plans was to ditch the current cam. I don't know how many people told you to do that. You were so sure it would perform up to par. Never the less, here we are, and your disapointed and already looking at spending more money and having to tear into the car again.
No, you do not need a FAST setup like some have said. I as well as others made plenty of power and had the mph to back it up with the LS6 intake and a ported stock TB. What you need is the optimization that I stressed to you before I finally gave up and you went along your way with your plan. Then reality came knocking.
I know I may be coming off a bit harsh, but I'm blunt and not much on sugar coating. At least you were man enough to post your sub-par results after many of us told you the setup was less than ideal.
If your ready to listen, there are several of us that can help you get to where you want to be.
Alright Brian go ahead I am listening?? I did pick up a cnc stock tb though.
07-25-2009, 12:33 PM
#48
07-25-2009, 12:44 PM
#49
The CNC spiral port TB picked 8 rwhp by itself over hand ported, but I will put money on it that a FAST 92 w/the right TB will gain another 20-30 rwhp. I see it all the time, week in & week out. In fact my own heads/cam stock cube just picked up 32 rwhp from the LS2 w/90mm TB and the cam was very similar in grind (allthough a different grind would be a great help I agree on that), but the heads are much inferior Patriots compared to his AFR's. Aside from anything else, he will see more gains from the AFR's (and the cam degreed properly) than from anything else IMHO.
07-25-2009, 12:51 PM
#50
Yeah a FAST would pickup for sure, but you are on the wimp size for the cam. The curv is very linear and looks 100% streetable, but you cant expect huge score like bigger grind for your nice heads.
I would get another cam before getting the FAST, unless youre sure about getting the FAST sooner or later. Then you could slap the FAST and see what it brings to the combo.
I would get another cam before getting the FAST, unless youre sure about getting the FAST sooner or later. Then you could slap the FAST and see what it brings to the combo.
07-25-2009, 03:37 PM
#52
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OP, get rid of the heavy *** 1.8 rockers and ditch the cam. You don't need a FAST intake to make power, the LS6 intake is quite capable and has been for years before the FAST.
Looking at your graph, you have some valve train issues and the cam itself is flat out, WRONG for the setup. Put your stock rockers back on (a great factory piece), get a different cam that is more suited to your SETUP and I'll guarantee you'll be much happier all together. You'll actually come out breaking even by selling the cam and the rockers and then purchasing a new cam (have your springs checked) and getting a re-tune.
To everyone else saying to just "THROW A FAST 92/92 ON THERE!!!". That isn't going to fix the problem. The problem is in his ENTIRE CAM/VALVE TRAIN SETUP. Throwing a ******* FAST intake at every low dynoing car is NOT THE ANSWER. Big numbers require a proper setup not just a bunch of parts thrown together because so and so said "it made a bajillion rwhp!"
07-25-2009, 03:49 PM
#53
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster California
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed.
OP, get rid of the heavy *** 1.8 rockers and ditch the cam. You don't need a FAST intake to make power, the LS6 intake is quite capable and has been for years before the FAST.
Looking at your graph, you have some valve train issues and the cam itself is flat out, WRONG for the setup. Put your stock rockers back on (a great factory piece), get a different cam that is more suited to your SETUP and I'll guarantee you'll be much happier all together. You'll actually come out breaking even by selling the cam and the rockers and then purchasing a new cam (have your springs checked) and getting a re-tune.
To everyone else saying to just "THROW A FAST 92/92 ON THERE!!!". That isn't going to fix the problem. The problem is in his ENTIRE CAM/VALVE TRAIN SETUP. Throwing a ******* FAST intake at every low dynoing car is NOT THE ANSWER. Big numbers require a proper setup not just a bunch of parts thrown together because so and so said "it made a bajillion rwhp!"
OP, get rid of the heavy *** 1.8 rockers and ditch the cam. You don't need a FAST intake to make power, the LS6 intake is quite capable and has been for years before the FAST.
Looking at your graph, you have some valve train issues and the cam itself is flat out, WRONG for the setup. Put your stock rockers back on (a great factory piece), get a different cam that is more suited to your SETUP and I'll guarantee you'll be much happier all together. You'll actually come out breaking even by selling the cam and the rockers and then purchasing a new cam (have your springs checked) and getting a re-tune.
To everyone else saying to just "THROW A FAST 92/92 ON THERE!!!". That isn't going to fix the problem. The problem is in his ENTIRE CAM/VALVE TRAIN SETUP. Throwing a ******* FAST intake at every low dynoing car is NOT THE ANSWER. Big numbers require a proper setup not just a bunch of parts thrown together because so and so said "it made a bajillion rwhp!"
What rocker would you reccomend ?
Yella Terra lights, Reworked Harland Sharp stock rockers, or other ?
What would be wrong with a bigger intake if the heads have more flow potential than the current intake ?
Just curious and always learning.
.
07-25-2009, 03:57 PM
#54
Agreed.
OP, get rid of the heavy *** 1.8 rockers and ditch the cam. You don't need a FAST intake to make power, the LS6 intake is quite capable and has been for years before the FAST.
Looking at your graph, you have some valve train issues and the cam itself is flat out, WRONG for the setup. Put your stock rockers back on (a great factory piece), get a different cam that is more suited to your SETUP and I'll guarantee you'll be much happier all together. You'll actually come out breaking even by selling the cam and the rockers and then purchasing a new cam (have your springs checked) and getting a re-tune. The car has already been tuned and will be tuned again. I will probably yes get a better cam and 1.7 rr this time. But it will be either a 224/or 228 comp.
To everyone else saying to just "THROW A FAST 92/92 ON THERE!!!". That isn't going to fix the problem. The problem is in his ENTIRE CAM/VALVE TRAIN SETUP. Throwing a ******* FAST intake at every low dynoing car is NOT THE ANSWER. Big numbers require a proper setup not just a bunch of parts thrown together because so and so said "it made a bajillion rwhp!"
OP, get rid of the heavy *** 1.8 rockers and ditch the cam. You don't need a FAST intake to make power, the LS6 intake is quite capable and has been for years before the FAST.
Looking at your graph, you have some valve train issues and the cam itself is flat out, WRONG for the setup. Put your stock rockers back on (a great factory piece), get a different cam that is more suited to your SETUP and I'll guarantee you'll be much happier all together. You'll actually come out breaking even by selling the cam and the rockers and then purchasing a new cam (have your springs checked) and getting a re-tune. The car has already been tuned and will be tuned again. I will probably yes get a better cam and 1.7 rr this time. But it will be either a 224/or 228 comp.
To everyone else saying to just "THROW A FAST 92/92 ON THERE!!!". That isn't going to fix the problem. The problem is in his ENTIRE CAM/VALVE TRAIN SETUP. Throwing a ******* FAST intake at every low dynoing car is NOT THE ANSWER. Big numbers require a proper setup not just a bunch of parts thrown together because so and so said "it made a bajillion rwhp!"
I understand what you are saying. You are all giving me your advice and you dont know what I want? Its my freakin car. My results are not that bad. But yes can be improved. I want a streetable car with decent gas mileage and a lil better numbers. I dont want a 230ish cam with a heavy lope to it. My goals are to have about 450rwhp and 400+ tq that is it. This is my daily driver car and so far a fast 92/92 will get me real close. I agree with more cam set up too. But for now its goin to be a fast 92/92 and I'll work around that.
Also I would like to add that throwing a fast 92/92 on there is the answer because it is goin to breathe better with my afr heads.
Last edited by corvet786c; 07-25-2009 at 04:03 PM.
07-25-2009, 04:36 PM
#57
I feel like I should've dynoed more but keep in mind, I have 4.10's and my FAST combo is not ported. I gotta tell you though, with the tq and the hp being what it is, the damn thing NEVER stops pulling. I'll get back to you on Monday with the info you requested.
07-25-2009, 05:26 PM
#58
I understand what you are saying. You are all giving me your advice and you dont know what I want? Its my freakin car. My results are not that bad. But yes can be improved. I want a streetable car with decent gas mileage and a lil better numbers. I dont want a 230ish cam with a heavy lope to it. My goals are to have about 450rwhp and 400+ tq that is it. This is my daily driver car and so far a fast 92/92 will get me real close. I agree with more cam set up too. But for now its goin to be a fast 92/92 and I'll work around that.
Also I would like to add that throwing a fast 92/92 on there is the answer because it is goin to breathe better with my afr heads.
Also I would like to add that throwing a fast 92/92 on there is the answer because it is goin to breathe better with my afr heads.
After you waste some more money and are ready to take some sound advice for some proven results, let me know.
07-26-2009, 12:26 AM
#60
Ok. You don't want a big cam, that's fine. For your goals, you don't need one anyway. To see some better results rather easily, here is what I suggest...
First off pull that cam outta there and sell it. Get with a trusted vendor or call Comp yourself and tell them you want this grind #: LS1 3724R/3725R HR114+1
Get rid of your 1.8 ratio rockers and go back to the stock 1.7s. You can send them off for a rebuild at Harland Sharpe or if they are in good shape with low miles you can use them as is. That's up to you, as there are a lot of people that have done fine with un-touched stock ones with zero issues, myself included, and others opt for the extra insurance from the upgrade.
Which head gasket did you wind up going with? The .040 Cometic that I suggested before or a GM mls set? If you don't have the .040 Cometics, I suggest those. If you don't have them and are thinking "wtf, I don't want to remove the heads AGAIN", that's why I stressed it so much when we spoke before. If you did go with them, GREAT, that's one thing already done to help with what we are trying to do here.
What about an under-drive pulley? Do you have one? They aren't a major power adder, but chalk it up as "every little bit counts".
You do have a lid correct? I don't recall hearing that mentioned.
Your exhaust is rather free flowing as far as cat backs go, and I like how you have a merge not just a shitty designed Y pipe that slams the two banks into each other, but still, get a cutout installed in the I pipe before it goes over the axle. If you want power all the time with some tone/sound from an actual muffler, go true duals.
Send me a picture of your ported TB. I port them for local guys and I'll know if it's a good job or not.
What plugs are you running and what is the gap set at? I would suggest you try some NGK TR6s gapped anywhere from .038-.042.
The LS6 intake is more than capable of getting the goals you mentioned. Stick with it for now.
Check to see how your pre-load is with your push rods with all the new parts; cam, rockers, head gaskets if they get changed. If you were running the stock lifters I could tell you with the parts I am suggesting, a 7.400 length would work great. The LS7 lifters however could and very well may vary enough to throw that off, so you'll need to check this to verify.
Make sure you have some good fuel in there. 93 octane if at all possible, but you do not need "race gas".
When you go for the tune with these new parts, check the duty cycle on the injectors and make sure it's getting the fuel it needs. If they're over 80% duty cycle, you need more injector. It wouldn't be a bad idea to look into a better fuel pump, but you can see how the stocker holds out first.
If your car is in good condition, without any issues to hinder it, with a good tuner and an average reading dyno, you should see your 450/400 goal, excellent street manners, and ~25 highway mpg with your 6 speed. I do not see gears listed, so that will help your numbers on the dyno and the fuel economy even more if you still have the stock 3.42s.
I might have missed something, but I'm pretty sure that should take care of you.
First off pull that cam outta there and sell it. Get with a trusted vendor or call Comp yourself and tell them you want this grind #: LS1 3724R/3725R HR114+1
Get rid of your 1.8 ratio rockers and go back to the stock 1.7s. You can send them off for a rebuild at Harland Sharpe or if they are in good shape with low miles you can use them as is. That's up to you, as there are a lot of people that have done fine with un-touched stock ones with zero issues, myself included, and others opt for the extra insurance from the upgrade.
Which head gasket did you wind up going with? The .040 Cometic that I suggested before or a GM mls set? If you don't have the .040 Cometics, I suggest those. If you don't have them and are thinking "wtf, I don't want to remove the heads AGAIN", that's why I stressed it so much when we spoke before. If you did go with them, GREAT, that's one thing already done to help with what we are trying to do here.
What about an under-drive pulley? Do you have one? They aren't a major power adder, but chalk it up as "every little bit counts".
You do have a lid correct? I don't recall hearing that mentioned.
Your exhaust is rather free flowing as far as cat backs go, and I like how you have a merge not just a shitty designed Y pipe that slams the two banks into each other, but still, get a cutout installed in the I pipe before it goes over the axle. If you want power all the time with some tone/sound from an actual muffler, go true duals.
Send me a picture of your ported TB. I port them for local guys and I'll know if it's a good job or not.
What plugs are you running and what is the gap set at? I would suggest you try some NGK TR6s gapped anywhere from .038-.042.
The LS6 intake is more than capable of getting the goals you mentioned. Stick with it for now.
Check to see how your pre-load is with your push rods with all the new parts; cam, rockers, head gaskets if they get changed. If you were running the stock lifters I could tell you with the parts I am suggesting, a 7.400 length would work great. The LS7 lifters however could and very well may vary enough to throw that off, so you'll need to check this to verify.
Make sure you have some good fuel in there. 93 octane if at all possible, but you do not need "race gas".
When you go for the tune with these new parts, check the duty cycle on the injectors and make sure it's getting the fuel it needs. If they're over 80% duty cycle, you need more injector. It wouldn't be a bad idea to look into a better fuel pump, but you can see how the stocker holds out first.
If your car is in good condition, without any issues to hinder it, with a good tuner and an average reading dyno, you should see your 450/400 goal, excellent street manners, and ~25 highway mpg with your 6 speed. I do not see gears listed, so that will help your numbers on the dyno and the fuel economy even more if you still have the stock 3.42s.
I might have missed something, but I'm pretty sure that should take care of you.