Truck Coils MYTH PROVEN INSIDE
10-24-2009, 06:49 PM
#24
I dont think he is kidding at all. Im the one that started the last thread showing a gain from swapping coils.
Please tell me what I have to gain by that? Do you think I have a shed full of used coils Im trying to sell?
I simply posted the results we saw from one test. Thats all. Do with it what you will.
Please tell me what I have to gain by that? Do you think I have a shed full of used coils Im trying to sell?
I simply posted the results we saw from one test. Thats all. Do with it what you will.
Sorry, I wasn't meaning you. You did a test and posted results, nothing wrong with that.
Over the years, I have seen a few sponsors and companies post results of something that the buying public could not reproduce with the same identical parts! I'm not talking 2-4 RWHP, more like 15-20 RWHP difference!
If you have the time, do 3 pulls back to back with the stock coils, then do 3 pulls back to back with the truck coils then put the stock LS1 coils back on and do 3 more pulls back to back.
Then repeat on a totally different car to see if the results are the same. If they are, then I'm sold!
10-24-2009, 08:34 PM
#26
Sorry, I wasn't meaning you. You did a test and posted results, nothing wrong with that.
Over the years, I have seen a few sponsors and companies post results of something that the buying public could not reproduce with the same identical parts! I'm not talking 2-4 RWHP, more like 15-20 RWHP difference!
If you have the time, do 3 pulls back to back with the stock coils, then do 3 pulls back to back with the truck coils then put the stock LS1 coils back on and do 3 more pulls back to back.
Then repeat on a totally different car to see if the results are the same. If they are, then I'm sold!
Over the years, I have seen a few sponsors and companies post results of something that the buying public could not reproduce with the same identical parts! I'm not talking 2-4 RWHP, more like 15-20 RWHP difference!
If you have the time, do 3 pulls back to back with the stock coils, then do 3 pulls back to back with the truck coils then put the stock LS1 coils back on and do 3 more pulls back to back.
Then repeat on a totally different car to see if the results are the same. If they are, then I'm sold!
10-24-2009, 09:30 PM
#28
Dyno results are dyno results.Sometimes parts just don't pan out.I've switched LS6 manifolds to FAST 90's and gain nothing.Is it the manifold? No,the combination dictated it by a Cam properly matched for a LS6.
So,do I buy changing coils does nothing? No,not yet.I agree with Shawn on the spark is spark theory but for my own sake I will fully test them on my own 427ci with full tuning of stock coils compared to a truck coil.Keep the temps exact and make sure the converter is locked.I figure a car running 12-1 comp. and 500+rwhp should make it easier to see a differencce if there is any.
So,do I buy changing coils does nothing? No,not yet.I agree with Shawn on the spark is spark theory but for my own sake I will fully test them on my own 427ci with full tuning of stock coils compared to a truck coil.Keep the temps exact and make sure the converter is locked.I figure a car running 12-1 comp. and 500+rwhp should make it easier to see a differencce if there is any.
10-24-2009, 10:21 PM
#30
its all good man. no problem.
I dont know if the car we did the swap on will be back in the shop anytime soon, but like I said, we will probably try this swap on our 98 vette in the near future so I will give it a shot there and see what happens.
whether we show gains or not, I will definately post it up. we would have never tried this swap at all if a customer hadnt come to us and asked us to do it for him.
its not something we have ever advertised or tried to push as some sort of money making scheme.
I dont know if the car we did the swap on will be back in the shop anytime soon, but like I said, we will probably try this swap on our 98 vette in the near future so I will give it a shot there and see what happens.
whether we show gains or not, I will definately post it up. we would have never tried this swap at all if a customer hadnt come to us and asked us to do it for him.
its not something we have ever advertised or tried to push as some sort of money making scheme.
Sorry, I wasn't meaning you. You did a test and posted results, nothing wrong with that.
Over the years, I have seen a few sponsors and companies post results of something that the buying public could not reproduce with the same identical parts! I'm not talking 2-4 RWHP, more like 15-20 RWHP difference!
If you have the time, do 3 pulls back to back with the stock coils, then do 3 pulls back to back with the truck coils then put the stock LS1 coils back on and do 3 more pulls back to back.
Then repeat on a totally different car to see if the results are the same. If they are, then I'm sold!
Over the years, I have seen a few sponsors and companies post results of something that the buying public could not reproduce with the same identical parts! I'm not talking 2-4 RWHP, more like 15-20 RWHP difference!
If you have the time, do 3 pulls back to back with the stock coils, then do 3 pulls back to back with the truck coils then put the stock LS1 coils back on and do 3 more pulls back to back.
Then repeat on a totally different car to see if the results are the same. If they are, then I'm sold!
10-24-2009, 10:30 PM
#31
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I ran a test on my own truck engine using a engine dyno. With charge time at 7ms the truck coils picked up 15hp if memory serves. When just testing the coils the truck coil had 8 amps the car coil 5 amps. I just got the report on that test, I did not run it.
Kurt
Kurt
10-24-2009, 11:11 PM
#32
I tested the coil theory years ago when I had my 383 on the engine dyno....swapped to the MSD coils ($600!) and picked up squat (they were sent by MSD to the test facilty where I happened to be dyno testing in hopes the shop (Westech) would try to pimp them a bit....the dyno test operator jumped at the chance to try them on my engine hoping something with 50% more output than stock might see a gain).
The first pull went from a best of 610-611 to 614 and we were both surprised a little thinking an eight coil system wouldn't really show much.....the next 4 pulls after that were back to 610-611.
Sorry....we have some nice parting gifts though
(They certainly looked a bunch better....maybe even a $100 worth but certainly not $600!)
Bottom line with an individual coil per cylinder its really hard to improve on the system unless you need some ridiculous amperage to fire the mixture where a significantly higher output coil can help. Its different with a single coil system because the coil has so much less time to regenerate its spark energy (its unloading eight times to every one time in an individual coil set-up).
Good post....probably helps many others not waste their time and money.
-Tony
The first pull went from a best of 610-611 to 614 and we were both surprised a little thinking an eight coil system wouldn't really show much.....the next 4 pulls after that were back to 610-611.
Sorry....we have some nice parting gifts though
(They certainly looked a bunch better....maybe even a $100 worth but certainly not $600!)
Bottom line with an individual coil per cylinder its really hard to improve on the system unless you need some ridiculous amperage to fire the mixture where a significantly higher output coil can help. Its different with a single coil system because the coil has so much less time to regenerate its spark energy (its unloading eight times to every one time in an individual coil set-up).
Good post....probably helps many others not waste their time and money.
-Tony
10-24-2009, 11:30 PM
#34
Make sure your using the truck coils with the alum heat sink on the top...
and then those coils can use a different dwell time, and in our results(on my 418 bracket motor) we gained 15 to 20 everywhere... and I gained around 8 to 12 on the L92 head 6.0L
and then those coils can use a different dwell time, and in our results(on my 418 bracket motor) we gained 15 to 20 everywhere... and I gained around 8 to 12 on the L92 head 6.0L
10-25-2009, 03:20 AM
#36
Maybe I missed it but did the OP change the dwell?
Get a grip - One dyno test doesn't prove or disprove anything, guys. We'll see over time how this really pans out. The guys that see gains may have something in common in their combos/scenarios...or the guys that show no gain may be missing something.
Keep in mind, these coils were designed to benefit under heavy loads - which isn't exactly the same as WOT on a dyno. If someone's tune doesn't need any more spark, I see no reason why it would benefit. In most cases though, I think you would benefit, even in small ways: smoother idle, a MPG or 2, etc.
Seriously though, this is common sense - you can feel a stronger spark, especially when the difference is a factor of 3. To say that makes no difference intuitively seems silly. I guess since spark makes no difference, fuel and air must not either...
It is perfectly reasonable that one could/would pick up 2-3% power/efficiency (not a huge amount) by multiplying the spark energy, even with an ignition system as good as ours is.
Why is this such a tough concept for some people to wrap their heads around?
10-25-2009, 07:47 AM
#38
Does anyone have a stock tune of a vehicle that surely has these coil? We could at least look at the dwell time vs standard coils.
10-25-2009, 09:09 AM
#39
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The only way I could possibly see a gain from a coil swap is when you take a tired out 120+k mile coil setup off and replace them with new coils whether it is Stock replacements or the truck coils.
Either way I dont think the gain is big enough, or will ever be big enough to have this huge debate about it. Whats a few hp honestly?? nothing at all. However in Charles case, their was no gain seen. Sure someone could do the same thing and their might show a gain, but how do you know its not just a change in Temperature/weather etc. that actually shows a gain???
In the end IMO coils are coils and coils. They all do the same and the Benefit (even if any) is so minimal it doesnt really make a difference at all.
Either way I dont think the gain is big enough, or will ever be big enough to have this huge debate about it. Whats a few hp honestly?? nothing at all. However in Charles case, their was no gain seen. Sure someone could do the same thing and their might show a gain, but how do you know its not just a change in Temperature/weather etc. that actually shows a gain???
In the end IMO coils are coils and coils. They all do the same and the Benefit (even if any) is so minimal it doesnt really make a difference at all.
10-25-2009, 10:56 AM
#40
...anyways back to the subject there is good info out there about these coils vs. regular LS coils and feel free to check the thread that has detailed info..I'l try to dig it up for those to lazy to use the search