TPIS Oval Intake and TB vs. Stock LS6 intake and TB on a 450 RWHP 346 CID Z06.
12-13-2003, 05:00 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TPIS Oval Intake and TB vs. Stock LS6 intake and TB on a 450 RWHP 346 CID Z06. Let's clear the air a bit on the "Magical Intake".
We had the opportunity to test it on a customer's car that came in for some updates on an older H/C package on a 346 CID Z06 and prior to the mods we decided to dyno the car with the stock LS6 intake and TB, and then with the TPIS oval inlet intake and oval TB.
Here are the results.
Both runs were made on stabilized temperatures. In other words, when a dyno run is first made on a cold drive train with low oil temperatures vs. stabilized temperatures there is always a 5-10 rwhp difference. This is why without making any tuning changes to a vehicle on the dyno, by the third or fourth run it makes 2% -3% more power than the first run if timing, A/F and coolant temperatures are kept the same, subsequent runs repeat within 1-2 hp.
The difference between the two intakes and TB was 3 ft/lbs and 6.7 hp.SAE corrected. If you look closely at the dyno graph, the two runs are within 1-3 hp all the way up to 5,000 rpm, as the engine keeps accelerating past 5,000 there is grater air demand and the TPIS intake with it's larger TB begins to make more power than the stock LS6 intake and stock TB. The TPIS intake is made by machining off the snout from a stock LS6 intake and attaching a new oval opening that excepts an oval TB, so the runners are left intact (stock length, diameter and taper angle) and won't change the wave action. This is also consistent with what we found on Brent's car (Stage 3X test car).
Sooner or later some other shops/racers will have the opportunity to test the difference between the two intakes and TBs, it would be very interesting to compare notes.
Julio
We had the opportunity to test it on a customer's car that came in for some updates on an older H/C package on a 346 CID Z06 and prior to the mods we decided to dyno the car with the stock LS6 intake and TB, and then with the TPIS oval inlet intake and oval TB.
Here are the results.
Both runs were made on stabilized temperatures. In other words, when a dyno run is first made on a cold drive train with low oil temperatures vs. stabilized temperatures there is always a 5-10 rwhp difference. This is why without making any tuning changes to a vehicle on the dyno, by the third or fourth run it makes 2% -3% more power than the first run if timing, A/F and coolant temperatures are kept the same, subsequent runs repeat within 1-2 hp.
The difference between the two intakes and TB was 3 ft/lbs and 6.7 hp.SAE corrected. If you look closely at the dyno graph, the two runs are within 1-3 hp all the way up to 5,000 rpm, as the engine keeps accelerating past 5,000 there is grater air demand and the TPIS intake with it's larger TB begins to make more power than the stock LS6 intake and stock TB. The TPIS intake is made by machining off the snout from a stock LS6 intake and attaching a new oval opening that excepts an oval TB, so the runners are left intact (stock length, diameter and taper angle) and won't change the wave action. This is also consistent with what we found on Brent's car (Stage 3X test car).
Sooner or later some other shops/racers will have the opportunity to test the difference between the two intakes and TBs, it would be very interesting to compare notes.
Julio
Last edited by Tekhombre; 12-13-2003 at 05:31 AM.
Trending Topics
12-13-2003, 02:03 PM
#8
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BergerMan
When exactly did you perform this dyno comparison? I don't see a date on your dyno sheet.
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Can you post the A/F curve? That can tell some of the story.....
Phillip
Phillip
Julio
12-13-2003, 02:07 PM
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by oOoLy
pice of the TPIS Oval Intake plz ?
Julio
12-13-2003, 05:19 PM
#10
Launching!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Collin County
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did you do a before and after on Brent's car ?
I would think a larger cam would show larger gains if indeed the intake/tb area is the choking point.
Some say that around 440-450-ish is when the strangle_hold takes place. Of course this would all depend on the cam size too.
I would think a larger cam would show larger gains if indeed the intake/tb area is the choking point.
Some say that around 440-450-ish is when the strangle_hold takes place. Of course this would all depend on the cam size too.
12-13-2003, 05:59 PM
#11
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Roger White
Did you do a before and after on Brent's car ?
I would think a larger cam would show larger gains if indeed the intake/tb area is the choking point.
Some say that around 440-450-ish is when the strangle_hold takes place. Of course this would all depend on the cam size too.
I would think a larger cam would show larger gains if indeed the intake/tb area is the choking point.
Some say that around 440-450-ish is when the strangle_hold takes place. Of course this would all depend on the cam size too.
Julio
12-14-2003, 12:00 AM
#12
Teching In
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Garwood NJ
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no big mystery to larger throttle bodies. It's simple, you will only gain power when and at what rpm point the throttle body is a restriction. Cam profiles won't have any effect. When you dyno/test a vehicle and monitor intake vacuum, if you see vacuum at WOT, the throttle body and or intake neck, is a restriction. We have seen this in the 5800+ rpm's on 440+ RWHP cars. On larger CID engines, we have seen vacuum as low as 4600 Rpm's. Basically, you won't see more power rite off idle, because there is plenty of air/throttle opening to support the engine.
It is simple, we do a lot of testing of different components. If you have Vacuum at WOT you need a bigger throttle body. You may only gain 1HP, but the power increase will only be at and above the rpm point the throttle body is restricting.
We posted this test so consumers won't be miss led into buying this product with the expectations of making 10-20 more RWHP rite off idle. If you don't like our test results, by all means, spend the money and time and test your self. Be fair and do through testing, ZO6 intake to ZO6 intake, same day and conditions, monitor AF ratio, timing, KR, oil temp, coolant temp and so on.
It is simple, we do a lot of testing of different components. If you have Vacuum at WOT you need a bigger throttle body. You may only gain 1HP, but the power increase will only be at and above the rpm point the throttle body is restricting.
We posted this test so consumers won't be miss led into buying this product with the expectations of making 10-20 more RWHP rite off idle. If you don't like our test results, by all means, spend the money and time and test your self. Be fair and do through testing, ZO6 intake to ZO6 intake, same day and conditions, monitor AF ratio, timing, KR, oil temp, coolant temp and so on.
12-14-2003, 11:43 AM
#16
Hey guys, what is the average kPa drop you see in a dyno pull. Often they will start at 99-100 kPa, and by WOT are at 96-98 kPa. Is that enough to warrant a different intake setup? How do you knwo its the TB choking the car and not the intake plenum itself?
12-14-2003, 03:15 PM
#17
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: w.s.n.c.
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Hey guys, what is the average kPa drop you see in a dyno pull. Often they will start at 99-100 kPa, and by WOT are at 96-98 kPa. Is that enough to warrant a different intake setup? How do you knwo its the TB choking the car and not the intake plenum itself?
Same questions. Mine starts out at 98 kPa at 100% TP and drops to 96kPa at 5000 rpms.
12-15-2003, 09:56 AM
#19
Teching In
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Garwood NJ
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE= How do you knwo its the TB choking the car and not the intake plenum itself?[/QUOTE]
The map sensor is mounted in the back of the intake in the plenum. If or when you read vacuum at WOT on your map sensor, you are using all the air in the plenum. The throttle/intake opening is the first place to address this problem. If you still have vacuum then the plenum would need to be enlarged.
The LSX intake is supposed to have a larger, throttle body opening, plenum, and runners. The TPIS is addressing the first problem. With the larger intake runners (LSX) the larger plenum and throttle openings are very necessary. You should see it shine on strokers. The intake and cylinder heads have been holding the strokers back from making more power.
The map sensor is mounted in the back of the intake in the plenum. If or when you read vacuum at WOT on your map sensor, you are using all the air in the plenum. The throttle/intake opening is the first place to address this problem. If you still have vacuum then the plenum would need to be enlarged.
The LSX intake is supposed to have a larger, throttle body opening, plenum, and runners. The TPIS is addressing the first problem. With the larger intake runners (LSX) the larger plenum and throttle openings are very necessary. You should see it shine on strokers. The intake and cylinder heads have been holding the strokers back from making more power.
12-15-2003, 10:39 AM
#20
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about doing a test with a ported Throttle body, rather then a stock throttle body. This would help determine the best bang for the buck, and prevent people from wasting their money.