99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

A while back I posted a poll for Resleeves and the results. So far only 8 people replied and 4 of those had problems.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

This would explain so little actual #'s on horsepower from the all bores and superstroker guys. They do not want to say anything until they get their cars back from being repaired because of resleeved issues. Another thing that bothers me is the NA 346ci cars are running deep in the 10's NA now. What da hell happen to the power under the curve with these all bores and superstrokers? They should be running 9's at the same raceweight? I am no fan of Cartek, but I have to give credit where it is due. Carteks 346ci combos are kicking the **** out of all bores and superstrokers at the track and you cant say it is weight, because some of the all bores and superstrokers weigh less. If this 346ci trend continues who would waste the money on a bigger motor? In theory bigger is better, but at the track, bigger comes with excuses.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

One thing you have to look at with setups like Cartek. It does runs some good numbers, and it dyno well, but it would NOT be fun on the street. The big bore and strokers have the down low torque and thats what makes street fun. I think another reason you dont see the superstrokers and big bores is from money. The superstrokers are upwards of $10-$20k. Not very many people can throw that kind of cash down. Untill the Eagle cranks, ever a 383 was $6k for a short block and buy the time you slap some stage 3 heads on it, you still end up with a $10-$12k motor.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Carl we have people on this board with 3 and 4 race cars. I think the money is there. Plus, you would have thought a shop car with a big bore or something would run some crazy times. Maybe because there are none from the vendors is a hint. All I see is power adders running good times. It also could be the big money people know something that we do not know.. Who has 15k plus miles on their big bore or superstroker? Do they run their cars hard like we do every weekend?

DERTY

Vince, it's much easier for Cartek to keep pushing the limits of the stock displacement motors. In retrospect it's very cheap to do and they will have more customers lined up to do it. There are not as many people willing and able to make the jump to the bigger motors. The cost is very substantial in comparison. When you have that sort of market there are going to be more substantial leaps in power development on the smaller motors. It's just that simple. The guys with 3 or 4 cars are not the market. They are just the ones you hear about that sound interesting. There are 300x as many people just looking to squeeze more out of their car at an inexpensive price.

I think that the Darton MID setup will be very nice once that gets to be perfected a little better. There's no chance in dropping a sleeve. The wall thickness is significantly better then that of resleeved dry liner. I would feel much more comfortable spraying or boosting a all-bore or super stroker with those liners. The problem is still that it makes a block cost close to $3000 when it's done. Versus stock displacement motors that you can stack up at $600 each for blocks. With that sort of initial cost, any significant developments will take more serious money.

I'll admit that my numbers from my motor won't meet most of your "dyno queen" standards. That's why I don't post them. I will say that the area under the curve is quite a bit higher then my head and cam setup. But rather then getting into all of that, you can simply try to catch up with me at the track! That's the only place where any of this counts anyway. Or if you happen to catch my car on the street, you might be very surprised by how well an all motor big bore car really stacks up. I just haven't had the energy since May to put any more then 5000 miles on my car because I've been tied up with racing and piles of broken transmission parts.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

It's the intake IMO.

The LSX will help.

The GMPP LS1 intake will be critical to unleashing the potential of the 427 motors IMO.

If things go as planned my engine for the RS goes on the engine dyno early in 04 with TEA 2.5 LS6 heads and LS6 intake, LSX intake & GMPP intake. I hope to be able to share the data and make the point about the new intakes. If I can make up my mind about stock displacement, Stroker or Big Bore we can get the project moving again.

blownhtm

Linear Velocity please PM me about your motor, thanks.

Linear Velocity

iTrader: (1)

Sent you a pm

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Derty you have a good point. The cost of admissions for the bare block alone is cheaper for the 346ci. Maybe one day the prices will go down.

2001 Pewter WS6

iTrader: (43)

Vince, case in point is that there really isn't any Big Bore Superstroker running. People aren't posting the problems because they are afraid to open their mouth in fear of not getting them repaired. Isn't it funny how and why more people like Pain are switching to an iron block???

Derty, I was browsing through your site the other day and I was very impressed how your car runs. Rossler makes a great tranny, you should be set for a while.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like it's time for a new re-sleeved block poll

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Iron it is.. Silence is golden..

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

I have never heard of a Darton wet sleeve block failing. Has anyone else? There is a possibility that instead of hiding problems, some guys do not live on the internet and read all the posts to participate in a poll. As far as the 346's catching up on the track, the intake is part of the problem, hopefully the FAST w/ a 90mm tb will be a big jump. Plus, there is 100x more cam development for stock cubes than strokers because there is more money for shops to make. I see like no one doing much for the stroker guys. There is a new "fastest" cam out for stock bores every week now lol. And the dyno and track prove they are in fact getting faster. I wish someone would step up to the plate and take the lead for the big motor guys.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I keep hearing the intake is the problem. How can the intake be the problem on the track? The power under the curve on these huge motors is still there and show up on the dyno. I guess with a load on them they slow down? The intake maybe restricting peak and midrange power, but the bigger motors still have more under the curve. Side by side on the street a all bore or superstroker would walk a 346ci by a huge margin, but on the track we are not seeing this. Maybe it is just the all bore and superstroker guys not setting up their cars right. I would like to see Brent from Cartek throw in a 427ci and see if he can run 9's NA. His driving seems to be great. He just needs that extra horsepower a bigger motor can provide.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

There is not many stroker racers out there compared to 346 racers.I've seen a few strokers in the 9's natural.They are mostly running 10's since they are daily driver's,not all out race cars with heavy weight reduction done.
The intakes really hurts a stroker.If the right intake comes out you'll see big jump on stroker outputs.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I hope so. I am going the stroker route no matter what. I need the torque to move my fat azz..

Ozz

Thats BS!!!, there are pleanty of Big bore cars running great numbers. Do some resleeve blocks have problems? sure they do, but there are also ones that run great. I ended up with the C5R and will hope to post Dyno numbers this weekend, I just have not had time to hit the dyno, but the mirror of my engine in a M6 (another member here) made 511rwhp and 510rwt. I expect to be a little lower in dyno numbers due to my A4 and converter but I also think I will be faster at the track All I can say for sure till spring is that the car is ungodly fast on the street and it blows the tires off at 60-70mph and can go from 70-120 in just a couple seconds, it revs instantly and the torque will pin you to the seat and put a grim on your face that will take a jackhammer to remove.

Linear Velocity

iTrader: (1)

Ok dyno sheet in front of me, it made 478 rwtq @ ~4800 rpms, stays flat for a little over 500 rpms then begins to fall off.

Linear Velocity

iTrader: (1)

Another point of interest, I'm looking at Bear's 427 dyno vs my 388 dyno. He's making about 475 rwtq @ 4000 rpms, whereas I'm making only 435 rwtq @ 4000 rpms. His torque peak is a little flater than mine though be both hold our peak torque numbers for a bout 500 rpms. As for hp, it look like at 5000 rpms Bear is making about 470 rwhp whereas I'm making 450 rwhp. It looks like Bear hits his peak hp @ 5900 and hold is until 6400 rpms, so again 500 rpms. I peak 511 rwhp at 6200 rpms, hold it for about 300 rpms and drop to 500 rwhp for the next 200 rpms. So while I had a shorter peak than Bear, I also had a higher peak and was still making 500 rwhp @ 6600 rpms whereas Bear is making about 480 rwhp at 6600 rpms. While mine and Bear setups are different (I have an M6 with a 12 bolt, 4.33's gears, 3.5" chromoly driveshaft), he's got an A4 locked convertor and a 12 bolt with 4.11's, it kinda gives you a good idea where both setups have their advantages. I'm running a smaller cam than Bear (230/236 .595/.598 114 LSA), but I think my heads flowed better (337 cfm intake) and I had more compression 12:1 (dynoed on a mixture of 91 octane 103). Bear does have more drivetrain loss and a lower CR and still beats me out on torque but I guess it all depends what you want. I wanted a kick *** street/strip car, while I never ran it at the track I've sure had fun with it on the street.

blownhtm

LINEAR VELOCITY CALL ME SO WE CAN TALK NUMBERS, THANKS (702)898-7368