What do you guys think of my numbers stock AFR 205 Heads?
04-15-2010, 02:37 PM
#42
I am going to be changing exhaust here in the next month or so. Right now I have QTP Tri-Y headers on the Vette. I am going to LG Pro's. Two big differences so we will see what it does. First, the LG's have longer primaries. Second, and in my mind just as important, the mid pipes and CATS are all 3". I think once you get to this level where you have a good performing motor, you need to take a hard look at the exhaust side of things.
04-15-2010, 03:24 PM
#43
I am going to be changing exhaust here in the next month or so. Right now I have QTP Tri-Y headers on the Vette. I am going to LG Pro's. Two big differences so we will see what it does. First, the LG's have longer primaries. Second, and in my mind just as important, the mid pipes and CATS are all 3". I think once you get to this level where you have a good performing motor, you need to take a hard look at the exhaust side of things.
04-16-2010, 04:30 AM
#44
Will be interesting to see your results. My setup is through FLP 1 3/4" LT's which I'm sure aren't as good as the LG Pro's w/ the nice collectors. I just don't know what I'm leaving on the table in the header/ORX department. If it's only 10RWHP or less then I'll keep my $1200.
04-16-2010, 07:20 AM
#45
I'm also curious to see how the new headers perform on your setup, vettenuts. I currently have Dynatech 1-3/4" LT's, but the coating has mostly come off so I either need to have them recoated or sell them as is and get new ones. I'm wondering if the ARH 1-7/8" LT's will gain me anything.
04-16-2010, 06:17 PM
#46
Will be interesting to see your results. My setup is through FLP 1 3/4" LT's which I'm sure aren't as good as the LG Pro's w/ the nice collectors. I just don't know what I'm leaving on the table in the header/ORX department. If it's only 10RWHP or less then I'll keep my $1200.
04-16-2010, 08:29 PM
#47
I'm also curious to see how the new headers perform on your setup, vettenuts. I currently have Dynatech 1-3/4" LT's, but the coating has mostly come off so I either need to have them recoated or sell them as is and get new ones. I'm wondering if the ARH 1-7/8" LT's will gain me anything.
04-16-2010, 08:35 PM
#48
It was 445/402 STD but that was with 24 deg timing, LS6 intake, ported stock TB, and a little bit of knock down low. I'm putting in a McLeod twin in a couple weeks and once broken in I'll get back to the dyno this summer now that I'm running the self-ported 90/90 setup and 26 deg timing. I'll be happy with 450-460RWHP SAE.
04-16-2010, 09:19 PM
#49
It was 445/402 STD but that was with 24 deg timing, LS6 intake, ported stock TB, and a little bit of knock down low. I'm putting in a McLeod twin in a couple weeks and once broken in I'll get back to the dyno this summer now that I'm running the self-ported 90/90 setup and 26 deg timing. I'll be happy with 450-460RWHP SAE.
07-15-2010, 03:44 AM
#52
For a 6-speed the numbers are a little low. For top of the line heads and intake you should be making somewhere close to 415 to 420 rwtq. Worry more about your TQ and your HP will take care of itself. With that heads/cam combo you should be making more TQ for sure. Especially since you have a good exhaust. I've seen that cam make similar numbers with just the cam and stock unported 241 heads plus all the popular bolt-ons. I hate to see you just throwing cams at your setup until you reach 400+rwtq. By adding 230 or bigger cams you're going to loose even more low end TQ. And you don't want that i'm sure, unless you want a high revving motor. I've also seen plenty of stock LS6 heads with a old B1 cam or a TR224 cam setups make well over 400rwtq with about 425rwhp and with a LS6 intake. I've only seen that intake make more on a dyno but at the track it doesn't seem to lower that many peoples ET's. So i'm not sure what could help raise your power, or TQ alittle more. Good luck with your setup.
07-17-2010, 04:44 AM
#53
I'm glad that the OP is happy with his numbers but i'm with NITROUSED383.
For a 6-speed the numbers are a little low. For top of the line heads and intake you should be making somewhere close to 415 to 420 rwtq. Worry more about your TQ and your HP will take care of itself. With that heads/cam combo you should be making more TQ for sure. Especially since you have a good exhaust. I've seen that cam make similar numbers with just the cam and stock unported 241 heads plus all the popular bolt-ons. I hate to see you just throwing cams at your setup until you reach 400+rwtq. By adding 230 or bigger cams you're going to loose even more low end TQ. And you don't want that i'm sure, unless you want a high revving motor. I've also seen plenty of stock LS6 heads with a old B1 cam or a TR224 cam setups make well over 400rwtq with about 425rwhp and with a LS6 intake. I've only seen that intake make more on a dyno but at the track it doesn't seem to lower that many peoples ET's. So i'm not sure what could help raise your power, or TQ alittle more. Good luck with your setup.
For a 6-speed the numbers are a little low. For top of the line heads and intake you should be making somewhere close to 415 to 420 rwtq. Worry more about your TQ and your HP will take care of itself. With that heads/cam combo you should be making more TQ for sure. Especially since you have a good exhaust. I've seen that cam make similar numbers with just the cam and stock unported 241 heads plus all the popular bolt-ons. I hate to see you just throwing cams at your setup until you reach 400+rwtq. By adding 230 or bigger cams you're going to loose even more low end TQ. And you don't want that i'm sure, unless you want a high revving motor. I've also seen plenty of stock LS6 heads with a old B1 cam or a TR224 cam setups make well over 400rwtq with about 425rwhp and with a LS6 intake. I've only seen that intake make more on a dyno but at the track it doesn't seem to lower that many peoples ET's. So i'm not sure what could help raise your power, or TQ alittle more. Good luck with your setup.
08-24-2010, 09:44 PM
#54
Guys,
My original combination that made 475 RWHP (on a half dozen different dyno's) was very optimized and built by a pro....don't think for a minute it doesn't make a difference because details matter, especially when we are discussing high performance engine assembly (and alot of time perfecting the tune).
To clarify a few things my former 346 package did have all the trimmings (EWP, UDP, lightweight clutch, reasonably lightweight tires/rims) but the heads were box stock 205's.
I also ported the intake....and while it all reads the same glancing over various peoples builds (referring to a "ported FAST"), the execution of the work and the actual part itself can look and work completely different.
To clarify the massaging.....when I provide a customer with a brand new set of heads loaded with all the upgrades (spring upgrade, cc and milling, etc.) and the additional hand porting it normally costs in the $3100 - $3500 range for the complete turn-key assemblies, but massaging a set of used heads is about $1000. For the extra power most have seen from this work (about 15 RWHP and big gains under the curve), its a reasonably cost effective upgrade all things considered. Swap to a ported 90 set-up and your looking at close to 2K when the smoke clears for a gain of typically 20....maybe 25 RWHP. The "Mamofied" 205's offers more ponies for the dollar.
Just felt the need to clarify a few things in this thread....if any of you have any specific questions related to your own package feel free to shoot me a PM or pick up the phone and say hello. OP....if your interested in having me rework your heads feel free to get in touch and we can discuss it. Most everyone I have helped with that work has had well above average results for stock displacement combinations to hard running 402 and 416 combinations as well.
Thanks,
Tony
My original combination that made 475 RWHP (on a half dozen different dyno's) was very optimized and built by a pro....don't think for a minute it doesn't make a difference because details matter, especially when we are discussing high performance engine assembly (and alot of time perfecting the tune).
To clarify a few things my former 346 package did have all the trimmings (EWP, UDP, lightweight clutch, reasonably lightweight tires/rims) but the heads were box stock 205's.
I also ported the intake....and while it all reads the same glancing over various peoples builds (referring to a "ported FAST"), the execution of the work and the actual part itself can look and work completely different.
To clarify the massaging.....when I provide a customer with a brand new set of heads loaded with all the upgrades (spring upgrade, cc and milling, etc.) and the additional hand porting it normally costs in the $3100 - $3500 range for the complete turn-key assemblies, but massaging a set of used heads is about $1000. For the extra power most have seen from this work (about 15 RWHP and big gains under the curve), its a reasonably cost effective upgrade all things considered. Swap to a ported 90 set-up and your looking at close to 2K when the smoke clears for a gain of typically 20....maybe 25 RWHP. The "Mamofied" 205's offers more ponies for the dollar.
Just felt the need to clarify a few things in this thread....if any of you have any specific questions related to your own package feel free to shoot me a PM or pick up the phone and say hello. OP....if your interested in having me rework your heads feel free to get in touch and we can discuss it. Most everyone I have helped with that work has had well above average results for stock displacement combinations to hard running 402 and 416 combinations as well.
Thanks,
Tony
Tony,
You know what they say about dyno numbers? Other than CA, around the country what does the average guy run with your heads and a medium cam like the 224/228 cam run? And why does a top end head need an expensive ported FAST intake that most of the post i've seen don't really lower ET's?
There are cars running LS6 intakes with ported LS1 heads that flow less and run good ET's at the track. Ain't that what people pay for? Thats the true test of a combo, not a dyno that can be manipulated. The quickest cars on this site run other than AFR heads. For the cost of the AFR's why don't the owners post their times? They posted before the head swap, but they claim they haven't been back to the track to see what they gained for the extra $2,300 plus over $1,000 for a ported FAST intake and TB. Something sounds wrong. At the track in my area aren't that impressive with the AFR's unless way more money spent to get the combo to run right. In my opinion i don't see it. Cars ran better 10 years ago with lower parts. And lower cost.
08-25-2010, 06:22 AM
#55
Tony,
You know what they say about dyno numbers? Other than CA, around the country what does the average guy run with your heads and a medium cam like the 224/228 cam run? And why does a top end head need an expensive ported FAST intake that most of the post i've seen don't really lower ET's?
There are cars running LS6 intakes with ported LS1 heads that flow less and run good ET's at the track. Ain't that what people pay for? Thats the true test of a combo, not a dyno that can be manipulated. The quickest cars on this site run other than AFR heads. For the cost of the AFR's why don't the owners post their times? They posted before the head swap, but they claim they haven't been back to the track to see what they gained for the extra $2,300 plus over $1,000 for a ported FAST intake and TB. Something sounds wrong. At the track in my area aren't that impressive with the AFR's unless way more money spent to get the combo to run right. In my opinion i don't see it. Cars ran better 10 years ago with lower parts. And lower cost.
You know what they say about dyno numbers? Other than CA, around the country what does the average guy run with your heads and a medium cam like the 224/228 cam run? And why does a top end head need an expensive ported FAST intake that most of the post i've seen don't really lower ET's?
There are cars running LS6 intakes with ported LS1 heads that flow less and run good ET's at the track. Ain't that what people pay for? Thats the true test of a combo, not a dyno that can be manipulated. The quickest cars on this site run other than AFR heads. For the cost of the AFR's why don't the owners post their times? They posted before the head swap, but they claim they haven't been back to the track to see what they gained for the extra $2,300 plus over $1,000 for a ported FAST intake and TB. Something sounds wrong. At the track in my area aren't that impressive with the AFR's unless way more money spent to get the combo to run right. In my opinion i don't see it. Cars ran better 10 years ago with lower parts. And lower cost.
08-25-2010, 01:01 PM
#57
Tony,
You know what they say about dyno numbers? Other than CA, around the country what does the average guy run with your heads and a medium cam like the 224/228 cam run? And why does a top end head need an expensive ported FAST intake that most of the post i've seen don't really lower ET's?
There are cars running LS6 intakes with ported LS1 heads that flow less and run good ET's at the track. Ain't that what people pay for? Thats the true test of a combo, not a dyno that can be manipulated. The quickest cars on this site run other than AFR heads. For the cost of the AFR's why don't the owners post their times? They posted before the head swap, but they claim they haven't been back to the track to see what they gained for the extra $2,300 plus over $1,000 for a ported FAST intake and TB. Something sounds wrong. At the track in my area aren't that impressive with the AFR's unless way more money spent to get the combo to run right. In my opinion i don't see it. Cars ran better 10 years ago with lower parts. And lower cost.
You know what they say about dyno numbers? Other than CA, around the country what does the average guy run with your heads and a medium cam like the 224/228 cam run? And why does a top end head need an expensive ported FAST intake that most of the post i've seen don't really lower ET's?
There are cars running LS6 intakes with ported LS1 heads that flow less and run good ET's at the track. Ain't that what people pay for? Thats the true test of a combo, not a dyno that can be manipulated. The quickest cars on this site run other than AFR heads. For the cost of the AFR's why don't the owners post their times? They posted before the head swap, but they claim they haven't been back to the track to see what they gained for the extra $2,300 plus over $1,000 for a ported FAST intake and TB. Something sounds wrong. At the track in my area aren't that impressive with the AFR's unless way more money spent to get the combo to run right. In my opinion i don't see it. Cars ran better 10 years ago with lower parts. And lower cost.