Vengeance VRX5 dyno results (LS6 engine) :-/
07-11-2010, 10:07 AM
#61
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Let me make another clarification, since there was some drama where it seemed like I was disappointed with Vengeance... I am NOT. I posted this thread to see if there was some experienced insight to things I might be missing. Maybe get some tuning advice, I would also love to hear from Ron or someone else at Vengeance to see if they think I am where I should be w/ these modifications, or if they think I am missing something.
So far, the biggest factors I have seen are:
-Ensure the motor isnt tired
-Might be not enough exhaust (needs 1 7/8 primaries)? (would love to see anyone who has this cam w/ 1 3/4 primaries, and what they made, other than the 1 i saw on CF)
-and, I am def going to bump up the RPMs, to maybe 6800-6900
So far, the biggest factors I have seen are:
-Ensure the motor isnt tired
-Might be not enough exhaust (needs 1 7/8 primaries)? (would love to see anyone who has this cam w/ 1 3/4 primaries, and what they made, other than the 1 i saw on CF)
-and, I am def going to bump up the RPMs, to maybe 6800-6900
07-11-2010, 10:23 AM
#62
For that power level 1 3/4 headers are ok. IMO that's not where the power is "low" from. Do a leak down like you said. Honestly the numbers are not horrible....stop getting so caught up in them man. Take it to the track....that will tell you the truth. Could be a stingy dyno, etc. But like i said, it does need more RPM, that cam wants to spin 6800. If you don't wanna spin it but 64-6600 then you have the wrong cam.
GO TO THE TRACK!!!!
I have been spinning my 100% stock motor with cam only for a long time now, and 0 problems. Knock on wood lol!
GO TO THE TRACK!!!!
I have been spinning my 100% stock motor with cam only for a long time now, and 0 problems. Knock on wood lol!
07-11-2010, 12:09 PM
#63
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My 413whp 99 camaro cam only 231/337 598-598 cam has been in my car for 48k miles and the long block has 129,000 miles on it and ive been shifting it at 6800rpm's for 48k miles and im super super hard and dog the **** out of my car and its 100% good 
It needs more rpm go to the track and shift at 6500 then try it again at 6800 to 7000 and see how much more faster it is 
mine was faster
It needs more rpm go to the track and shift at 6500 then try it again at 6800 to 7000 and see how much more faster it is mine was faster
07-11-2010, 05:09 PM
#64
as for headers, i ran 11.38 with my old engine in my trans am with Mac midlengths and an ls6 intake with ported t/b and switched to Edelbrock stepped race headers and a ported fast 90 with nw/ 90 tb. Never matched the et of the first combo but picked up 1 mph with the changes. power went from 423/410 to 441/408 with the last combo.
Dont Change anything , take it to the track .
Dont Change anything , take it to the track .
07-11-2010, 05:28 PM
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Rob
07-11-2010, 05:37 PM
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Let me make another clarification, since there was some drama where it seemed like I was disappointed with Vengeance... I am NOT. I posted this thread to see if there was some experienced insight to things I might be missing. Maybe get some tuning advice, I would also love to hear from Ron or someone else at Vengeance to see if they think I am where I should be w/ these modifications, or if they think I am missing something.
So far, the biggest factors I have seen are:
-Ensure the motor isnt tired
-Might be not enough exhaust (needs 1 7/8 primaries)? (would love to see anyone who has this cam w/ 1 3/4 primaries, and what they made, other than the 1 i saw on CF)
-and, I am def going to bump up the RPMs, to maybe 6800-6900
So far, the biggest factors I have seen are:
-Ensure the motor isnt tired
-Might be not enough exhaust (needs 1 7/8 primaries)? (would love to see anyone who has this cam w/ 1 3/4 primaries, and what they made, other than the 1 i saw on CF)
-and, I am def going to bump up the RPMs, to maybe 6800-6900
Rob
07-11-2010, 06:09 PM
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when they did the cam install, was a degree wheel used to make sure the cam was installed correctly and it was ground correctly/was the correct cam??Lifter preload measured??
07-12-2010, 07:15 PM
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Glad to see some more good advice besides mine. At least ya'll aren't getting bashed for posting good stuff.
To the OP I apologize for responding to the nonsense in your thread. I never once mentioned VR so I obviously didn't take it as you bashing them. At any rate I really think some of the things you didn't do that others did are the reason for missing the mark you were expecting. Then again others have come on here and posted good ideas as well. When was your last tune up? Did you dyno with properly gapped fresh plugs and wires ? Clean air filter. A dirty air filter could definately hurt results if shes clogged. I felt my car a month ago behaving very badly. Felt down on power and had started to stall. I checked the Air Filter and it was full of DOG WOOD or Cotton Wood depending on what you want to call it. Cleaned it and replaced and she felt back to normal.
How about the leak down test, did you do it yet? If the motor is 100% then you have to expect a bit less from your mods. Hope it all works out. Gotta be something simple as a fresh set of plugs wires and a new filter?
To the OP I apologize for responding to the nonsense in your thread. I never once mentioned VR so I obviously didn't take it as you bashing them. At any rate I really think some of the things you didn't do that others did are the reason for missing the mark you were expecting. Then again others have come on here and posted good ideas as well. When was your last tune up? Did you dyno with properly gapped fresh plugs and wires ? Clean air filter. A dirty air filter could definately hurt results if shes clogged. I felt my car a month ago behaving very badly. Felt down on power and had started to stall. I checked the Air Filter and it was full of DOG WOOD or Cotton Wood depending on what you want to call it. Cleaned it and replaced and she felt back to normal.
How about the leak down test, did you do it yet? If the motor is 100% then you have to expect a bit less from your mods. Hope it all works out. Gotta be something simple as a fresh set of plugs wires and a new filter?
07-12-2010, 11:49 PM
#70
I just went back through your post and read this:
My thoughts to add here:
-Commanded A/F does not mean that's what you're engine is going to get. Especially if your MAF isn't calibrated properly (obviously it's not), your A/F could be a full 2 points off from what it's commanded to do, and what it's actually giving you.
-Tune your VE tables FIRST
-Then scale the MAF properly so your fueling is accurate
-THEN, and ONLY then, you can tune for a good A/F. Your A/F should stay steady all the way across. That A/F reading on that dyno sheet looks like ****.
-If you do not have a wideband, you can not properly tune Air/Fuel. PERIOD
Do those things, and you could possibly find some more power in the car and probably better driveability too. Good luck.
Final dyno tune pull. The large bump came primarily from increasing timing (about 3 degrees more up to 28 deg). Tried moving the commanded AFR around quite a bit, and it really made no difference between 12.5 and 12.8 commanded at the upper end.
-Commanded A/F does not mean that's what you're engine is going to get. Especially if your MAF isn't calibrated properly (obviously it's not), your A/F could be a full 2 points off from what it's commanded to do, and what it's actually giving you.
-Tune your VE tables FIRST
-Then scale the MAF properly so your fueling is accurate
-THEN, and ONLY then, you can tune for a good A/F. Your A/F should stay steady all the way across. That A/F reading on that dyno sheet looks like ****.
-If you do not have a wideband, you can not properly tune Air/Fuel. PERIOD
Do those things, and you could possibly find some more power in the car and probably better driveability too. Good luck.
07-13-2010, 12:18 AM
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yup 
have to have a wide ban
have to have a wide banI just went back through your post and read this:
My thoughts to add here:
-Commanded A/F does not mean that's what you're engine is going to get. Especially if your MAF isn't calibrated properly (obviously it's not), your A/F could be a full 2 points off from what it's commanded to do, and what it's actually giving you.
-Tune your VE tables FIRST
-Then scale the MAF properly so your fueling is accurate
-THEN, and ONLY then, you can tune for a good A/F. Your A/F should stay steady all the way across. That A/F reading on that dyno sheet looks like ****.
-If you do not have a wideband, you can not properly tune Air/Fuel. PERIOD
Do those things, and you could possibly find some more power in the car and probably better driveability too. Good luck.
My thoughts to add here:
-Commanded A/F does not mean that's what you're engine is going to get. Especially if your MAF isn't calibrated properly (obviously it's not), your A/F could be a full 2 points off from what it's commanded to do, and what it's actually giving you.
-Tune your VE tables FIRST
-Then scale the MAF properly so your fueling is accurate
-THEN, and ONLY then, you can tune for a good A/F. Your A/F should stay steady all the way across. That A/F reading on that dyno sheet looks like ****.
-If you do not have a wideband, you can not properly tune Air/Fuel. PERIOD
Do those things, and you could possibly find some more power in the car and probably better driveability too. Good luck.
07-13-2010, 08:59 AM
#72
Well just finished tuning of my recent cam install... I wont lie, I am kind of disappointed with the numbers. Yes, numbers are just numbers, but I tend to believe them, based on my performance against a stock ls3 vette in a highway 'roll race' 40-120mph (side by side throughout).
Mods:
-LS6 from 2003 ZO6 (stock 243 heads)
-FAST 102 mani
-LS2 90mm TB
-Vararam V2 intake
-Vararam Power Duct
-LG Pro long tubes, cat delete
-Stock zo6 Ti exhaust
-Vengeance VRX5 camshaft (236/238 .601/.609)
-PRC 675 spring kit
The only good news is that the street tuning was pretty damn close to perfect before even hitting dyno it turns out. Dyno tuning really got hardly anything even had input/assistance from Tracy Scott, which is a local lsx tuner, with a great reputation for making great numbers and solid tunes, so it legit
So, ended up with 415whp and 377ft-lbs which is about 15whp shy of what I was 'hoping'/thinking I would get with the cam and supporting mods (based on other dyno results i have seen w/ same cam/heads)
Oh well. At least it looks pretty good and smooth. any thoughts?
Mods:
-LS6 from 2003 ZO6 (stock 243 heads)
-FAST 102 mani
-LS2 90mm TB
-Vararam V2 intake
-Vararam Power Duct
-LG Pro long tubes, cat delete
-Stock zo6 Ti exhaust
-Vengeance VRX5 camshaft (236/238 .601/.609)
-PRC 675 spring kit
The only good news is that the street tuning was pretty damn close to perfect before even hitting dyno it turns out. Dyno tuning really got hardly anything even had input/assistance from Tracy Scott, which is a local lsx tuner, with a great reputation for making great numbers and solid tunes, so it legit
So, ended up with 415whp and 377ft-lbs which is about 15whp shy of what I was 'hoping'/thinking I would get with the cam and supporting mods (based on other dyno results i have seen w/ same cam/heads)
Oh well. At least it looks pretty good and smooth. any thoughts?
I was directed to this thread last night. I have read thru all of the comments/suggestions and thought I would chime in to offer my opinion.
Your modifications are fine. Your stock Ti catback will support a 427 stroker. NO need to swap it. Dont believe me? Drop the catback on the dyno and Im willing to bet you pick up ZERO rwhp.
Your intake/Throttlebody is FINE. They both have been proven to make power on STOCK internal applications. No need to waste your time swapping back
The LG headers are fine. NO need to swap to a 1 7/8 primary. All that is going to do is cost you 10rwhp/rwtq down low and maybe pick up 5rwhp peak.
The camshaft... I think we all know it is proven to make excellent power.
Peak #s aside, because we all know they mean very little.. Dynos are tuning tools and their results do vary across the country. That being said, the A/B comparison you have posted leads me to believe SOMETHING isnt right. I have NEVER seen a VRX5 camshaft make identical power thru the entire RPM range until 5000rpm and then pick up the minimal gains yours did. As far as the peak #s go. I would expect your combo to go 430s to 440s with ease.
I would check the following:
Plugs/Wires- Are all cylinders firing?
Fuel Pressure- Maintain 50+PSI @ WOT
Compression
Leakdown
Camshaft Installation
Clutch- Make sure it is not slipping. Graph over speed
Camshaft itself- Have the camshaft doctored to ensure there wasnt an error when the camshaft was cut.
From the looks of your before #s your engine is healthy, but it doesnt hurt to verify the #s.
Feel free to shoot me a PM or give me a call if you want to discuss this further. I will be happy to help. Do not get caught up in chasing your tail and throwing money at your car as suggested by some in this thread.
07-13-2010, 10:41 AM
#73
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I fully realized the OP would lose power down low with the larger headers but he seems deadset on making the same PEAK hp that others have made using the VRX5.
Again best of luck as you follow the suggestions put forth by Ron and Damien. You should find any issues that may exist based on there comments.
Again best of luck as you follow the suggestions put forth by Ron and Damien. You should find any issues that may exist based on there comments.
07-13-2010, 01:44 PM
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^^^^ um tim i think you made a typo in your sig, you put 548 tq that cant be right? lol ricer!
dave just go to the track and get some numbers and then when your unhappy with them, do a driver mod and see what they really are, then deal with the issues. lol
dave just go to the track and get some numbers and then when your unhappy with them, do a driver mod and see what they really are, then deal with the issues. lol
07-13-2010, 02:10 PM
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It's also kinda scary that I've been a member on here longer than most of the CSS LSX nutswingers....shows I've been keeping up with the competition for a long time. 
stay on track or daves gonna get pissed and report you 
