ssutedave

Great numbers ,thanks for sharing this info ,the thing that makes this combo special i think is the cam size,i know of a lot of guys running much bigger cam than that with less hp,have you got any fuel usage figures?

ringram

Excellent results gents as usual.
It might be interesting to see how Cary's Mast LS3/L92 heads compare with similar mods and optimised cam of similar spec.

fatmat80

First off great results and congradulations Pat and Tony!! I am not a technical wizzard but I appreciate that neither one of you play shadow games with your results. I wish i would have gone with a aftermarket casting when i did my build earlier this year but u live and you learn. I would have thought that by now with all your accomplishments and free R&D you have provided for this forum people like bozzhawg and the other guy would have a little more class in there approach. But they dont. And when i say free i mean they volunteer there results on the rides and customers so that it makes our lives a little easier. By the way bozzhawg whats ur setup? and your times Im currious? It does seem to me like u are trying to make a name for yourself. Trying to take a shot at one of the "O.Gs" But its cool keep up the good I mean great work Tony and Pat. And yes I guess I took the The blue pill..And Bozzhawg after I get my MAMOFIED heads/intake I will show you what my average joe build does in the real world on the street of course..ha ha..

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

That was a Tony Mamo decision. Tony wanted me to use a catalog lobe that anyone could buy and duplicate. Not everyone wants to buy a custom lobe.

Fuel mileage is 1-2 mpg better on the highway than my stock motor was in 8 cylinder mode. I've been getting 23-24 mpg on the highway with the a/c blasting. It's almost as good as the stock motor in 4 cylinder mode.

A3VETTE

iTrader: (2)

Please correct me if im wrong but do you really think it would just go 119-120 with a DA(0)?

I would think it would go in the range of ~123-125

I want to use Devilish34's car as an example. He went 11.78 @ 117 with about 420 whp and a DA ~950 from what he says. Track elevation of 320ft vs SAR 600ft.

Ive also seen time slips of other G8 owners on here with a bit more whp (ranging from 440-460) running similar times and mph with higher DA's (1500-2000)

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

DA factors in altitude. If you take Devilish34's ET & mph, correct it to 0' DA, you get the following ET and mph: 11.868 @ 116.234 MPH
Had he run in 2706' DA, the ET would have been 12.12 @113.6 mph (making the same power as when he ran 11.78 at 117mph in -950 DA). This is how much of a swing in ET & mph you get in this much of a change in DA.

These correction factors came from the following website:

http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-...calculator.php

I use the extensively modified naturally aspirated engine profile because it gives more realistic corrections.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

agreed DA is one of the most overlooked factors on this site when comparing times. Now Im only using a g-tech but at 3000da I pull 12.9-13.0 all day... at 1700 da Im pulling 12.6-12.7. According to the dragtimes calculator at 0 da it should go 12.4...

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Yes....it painfully is at times (overlooked) and when discussing track results its ALL that matters. Especially if we are examining the trap speeds (versus weight) to determine how much power we are really putting to the pavement. Thats where those occasional very high dyno'ing cars mysteriously slip away (and the excuses start to roll.....LOL).

D/A is essentially the equivalent of boost....its air density....how "heavy" and oxygen rich is the air we are running in and the more oxygen rich it is (assuming we are adding the proper increase in fuel mixture), the more effective it will be when it enters the combustion chamber.

Take a car your used to running close to sea level and run it in Denver Colorado....when you experience 20 - 25% of your power disappear you will have a real world appreciation of the importance of this topic. Or, run in Denver all the time and trailer your car to a sea level track and you will experience the same effects as bolting on a supercharger....the car will be and feel that much faster with an extra 100+ HP. And its really no different....a supercharger simply gives your engine a huge increase in effective or dynamic D/A, much like a huge reduction in physical altitude would.

KingLt-1....a move to sea level should knock another 2.5 tenths or so off your slip so your 12.4 estimate is right on target.



-Tony

PS....Gotta love the track for it's shear and utter dismissal of inflated dyno figures, drama, Internet bench racing, etc. It's like the ultimate BS meter.....LOL If your making big power you will see it represented in your trap speeds....period (regardless of ET btw) and thats what I really focus on when evaluating a particular package and what's it capable of. If you know the race weight of your vehicle and the D/A on the day that you ran, you can calculate via mathematics exactly what type of power that vehicle is producing at the flywheel. ET on the other hand (which some value more than others) is simply a yardstick to measure of how well your applying that quantifiable power down the length of it....it's really that simple. I would rather take a ride in a car that runs 12.20 @ 132 than a car that goes 11.20 @ 118.....the first while obviously spinning out of the hole would stuff you in the seat with alot more authority (a 14 MPH increase in trap speed feels like you strapped a small JATO rocket on the roof!). To be fair, the 11.20 car would feel alot more violent in the first 100 feet or so as its applying ALL of its power to the pavement but would not be accelerating nearly as hard down the rest of the track (hence the much lower trap speed!).

J-Rod

Sorry to be late to this party... Looks like I misse dout on all the fun oiver the last few days. I will echo what Tony and Pat said about DA. Many of y'all overlook it.

In fact my thread to Pat was to wait and bring it to HRP in a few weeks as we are about to move into the winter where we get the best air quality of the year in the Houston Area. If we had gotten some freakish weahter and PAt had run a "hero" time in super mineshaft air people would just tend to gloss over it.

Don't be mistaken to assume that there are shops out there who have used geographic location and good air quality to have "track rental days" where they go run almost unbelieveable times. Well, they are unbelievable until you factor in that a -2300 DA is about 9-11% more HP. So, on a 500 HP motor you just got 50 extra HP. Hey your, car just dropped .28 and picked up 3-4 mph with nothing more than air density.

Let me give you a real world example:
A car I had some races against ran a best of 10.52@ 130.42 @ approximately a -2343 DA

That time converts to a 10.809 @ 126.651 MPH to 10.76 @ 127.567 MPH in 0 DA on that website

The car that ran 10.52 ran a 10.844@127.24 in air that was +385 to +1400 when I raced it in a heads up race. If necessary I can go dig up the exact time and get the exact DA. What I'm trying to say is DA matters on both ET and MPH. Its about the same as posting uncorrected dyno numbers. Smart people ask for DA because thay can sit down an figure out that really means at 0 and what the numbers really say.

Pat tried to zero out his runs and give you a comparison of 0 vs 0 and you guys still don't get it.... Well, I think some of you do and just like to argue. I think others just like to stir the pot, and I think a few others just have an overwhelming need to tell themselves they are "right" about L92's when right or wrong has nothing to do with it.

Look, I've spoken my peace about the benefits of better flow with lower port volume. Those of you who understand, understand. Those who don't, well maybe there just isn't any hope for you even if we make it really, really simple for you. Again and again, I'll say it for your benefit. Forget Cathedral Port vs L92 port. What I am talking about here is Basic Cylinder Head 101. Smaller port + better velocity + flow > big port + lower velocity + flow . Look its basic physics.

Now, for those hardcore L92 guys who just have to reason tot hemselves that "well my combo works". Great, I'm really, really happy your satisfied. Again, at the end of the day thats what its all about. But, what are you baselining your choice against. You go build a 6.0L and throw L92s and make a number you are happy with, how do you know what abetter head is going to do on your combo? Pat di a back to back comparison for you with testing that is verifiable, and pretty scientific in its approach.

I did the same thing back in the day with a set of ported 243's vs AFR 205's. People had the same argument then with me. "My ported 243's are good enough". Well, thats wonderful for you. But, in an A -B comparison of a ported stock casting vs a dedicated casting here is the differences and the benefits.

I would venture to say that most people now accept that the aftermarket castings are better than ported 243. Ported 243s may be cheaper, and folks hit their goals with some of the cheap heads out there, but if you are looking for the best option the aftermarket castings have it in the Catherdral port world. But, I guess there are folks who feel like ported 041 and 461X's, etc... are better than an aftermarket SBC head too.

At the end of the day it just comes down to education, or lack of it...

beavis

iTrader: (15)

Nice setup but it seems this thread is about how switching heads made all the difference. What about the cam and porting of the intake that was also done when the heads were changed out? How much was gained from just the heads?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Perhaps you did not read the entire thread? In fact, you must not have even read the first 30 posts because as the original poster, this thread has been all about the parts assembled to get the G8 to 504rwhp. The L92 head fans have just turned the attention to the cylinder heads that I swapped to. All of your comments have been addressed four or five times in the thread. It's a good read if you have time.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

very nice job Tony and Pat. I love that car, might find one for my wife some day

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Back to the top!

News flash from Pat G. driving home from the track (just hung up with him on his cell navigating his journey back home).

Lets just say he was warned on his very first run and got kicked off his second

Good conditions....close to sea level (not crazy mineshaft air but all that he needed to allow the new package to shine)

I'm not going to spill the beans even though Pat gave me the green light to do so and revive the thread.

Truthfully, I think he may start a new post with the track results and all the documented weather conditions at the time of the run.

For those not familiar last week Pat also ran close to 170 MPH in some pretty strong winds at the Texas mile....this is a very formidable 4200 lb street beast!

Project "Back to the Future" is alive and well in Texas!



-Tony

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Great night of racing. Here's my time slips for my two runs. Got asked to leave for having no roll bar. Finally got to race in good air (although not mine shaft air).

Approximately 4200 lb race weight.

60' 1.724
330' 4.801
1/8 7.348
mph 97.16
1000' 9.555
1/4 11.413
mph 121.29
As far as I know, this is one of the quickest and fastest all-motor G8s around. So for all you looking for 1/4 mile proof to back up the dyno numbers, I hope this satisfies you.

69LT1Bird

iTrader: (1)

Great run Pat, you had the numbers covered last time.

I don't the see the controversy that Tony whats us to see. You have a stock G8 with some good tweaks to it to make very good low budget power and are comparing it to a mamofied head, intake, cam, header project, there is no comparisons to be made. If people want your power level just open their wallets. Big horsepower costs money, no cheap way around it.

ctd

iTrader: (1)

Have you used the 1/4 test your Mustang dyno is capable of?

If yes, how does it compare to the real world?

Jenson

iTrader: (32)

Man that's moving for such a hefty, stealthy ride. I can't way to have that much power and 1K lbs less!!

gto_ua

Today I've ordered the same 230cc V2 heads for my ls2 GTO...
Interesting what mine will put.
Thanks Hinson Supercars for providing good pricing and customer care.

I aslo have FAST 102, Kooks, but a SS-HT cam 228/232 111LSA

redsap05

Plase keep us updated. Curious to see what they make out of the box. (not mamofied)