99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

In summary the PP S2 style heads were worth 15 rwtq from 3000 to 5000 rpm and 1rwhp/10rwtq on the old peak numbers right? It would be nice to see the graph if possible. Older MTI S1's touched up by Hans flowed about the same on the flow bench? Any numbers to share?

Was the car dyno'd on a Mustang dyno? If so the numbers seem very good otherwise I agree with Vince.

Whould be nice to know what both sets of heads flow with & with out the LS6 intake in place. This doesn't strike me as much of gain for a ported Stage 2 set of heads over a touched up MTI Stage 1's with additional work. However as long as the customer is happy that's all that matters.

Edited: Should have said S2 in orginal post.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You inferred they were the LS6 heads and I never posted for certain which style they were. I assumed since my car was a '98, it was a given that these were perimeter valve cover design heads.

The heads are the LS1, perimeter bolt design heads.

mbaskett

Amen! I'm glad there's some other ppl out there that know what it takes to make a car perform well, and not just give good dyno queen numbers.

Mitch, sounds like you did good on the swap as a whole! Congrats!

Matt

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

The track counts only to those that go to the track. I am a street racer. When I first purchased the car I did go to the track, but I had no clue that my numbers were not going to be like others and I got frustrated. Back then not many mentioned I needed to drop my raceweight, put gears in the car, and run ET Streets or slicks. When I went to the track I ran ok for my raceweight. While up at the first TR Shootout I weighed my car with me in it. 3815lbs. I had TEA Stage I heads, FM-4 cam and 4.10's. The cutout was closed so I was probably right at 400rwhp. I had 315/35/17 Goodyear tires. Not even drag radials on the car. I ran a 12.4 at 116mph with a 2.1 60ft. I only made one pass because I was told I needed a helmet to continue racing. I have no clue if my times are good or bad for my raceweight. I can care less. My glory is gained when I prowl the streets on Saturday nights.

Bowtieman4life

iTrader: (1)

I think what people are saying is that the milling of the head could be responsible for the increase in tq. I know that 1 comp point is worth about a 3% increase in power. If he got 1/2 a comp point it should be worth 18 lbs tq. Basically, milling your old heads would have done the job. Good luck but I think you got taken. I made more power running stock 241 heads. I really wonder how great these after market heads are.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Thanks Matt.
I'm definitely not disappointed

I'm headed for the track next weekend and we'll see how it does on a road course.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

This is another example of a cam only setup making good #'s..

"2000 SS, t56, MNB, custom 220/220 cam, ZO6 intake, Jet Hot headers, Hooker ORY, QA1 12 way shocks, ASP pulley, 12 bolt w/4.11. Dyno 394 RWHP 376 RWTQ SAE w/ tuning through my 12 bolt. New time 12.01 at 117.7. "

By the way.. My Mustang Dyno #'s on my last setup was 397.8rwhp/374.1rwtq with a 3600lb load... The bad news is I did not get the dyno sheet until after the spring broke and the valve dropped. My car broke less than a hour off the dyno. When I looked at the dyno sheet I noticed my car peaked 350rpm earlier. If I would have seen the sheet b4 racing that bike I would have put two and two together. Good Luck Mitch. I am sure your track times will be good. Ignore me. I am just jealous you have a operational car.

chetyg

there are too many variables dont read too much into dyno numbers unless they come out like 250rwhp then worry. I have PP STG2 LS6 heads/tsp 231/237 cam and i havent had it dynoed dont care to all i know is in the racing i do which usually is highway rolls on the way home from work i have a blast!!!!!

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

Some people on this board will never be happy with any thing that has to do with the word "Patriot". Even though Patriot is driving the prices of the people whom they use down, thus giving them a better deal. If you don't like them, good for you. Quit raining on other peoples parade. Just be happy that there is some competition out there in the head market, thus helping you in some way. If he even stayed the same in HP/TQ, he still gains in the pocket book. I'm sure the MTI S1's were far more expensive than the Patriots were, and he even got a little better TQ.

Mike98WS6

iTrader: (5)

I agree with u 100%. The goal here is that competition is driving the costs down for us the consumer.

Bowtieman4life

iTrader: (1)

Raining on what parade? Read my earlier post. Milling the heads could have been the sole reason for the 10 lbs of tq. In my opinion you just gave someone $1300 bucks when you could have milled your own heads.

For the record, I am not a PP hater. TEA has dropped the ball several times. A friend of mine dump his ZO6 heads for some 5.3 ST2 TEA heads that were milled for more compression and only gained 7 hp above 5,500 rpms. He lost 10-12 below 5,500.

Finally, I know its hard for some of you to accept that you made a bad purchase or you got a bad set of heads. If I were you, I would call PP and let them know. I hear they are a good bunch of guys and maybe they will check your heads out. Just my opinion. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings.

blk~2000~Z28

Where was the $1300 from? You are raining on someone's parade. He never wanted sizable gains yet he got some good torque gains.

Bowtieman4life

iTrader: (1)

Well that isn't my intention. I just think he needs to call PP and talk to them. I think they would agree that something isn't right.

blk~2000~Z28

Alot of people have had great success with PP 5.3's and a few have had good results with their LS6 style. I have never heard any results about their LS1 S2 heads so maybe this is expected. At the price listed from TSP I do not think they could have had extensive work done to them, but I could be wrong.

Spellbound

If your talking about Reboot, I have those heads now and with a bigger cam, I am making around 430rwhp and 407 rwtq, with a pretty rightous tq curve.

critter

iTrader: (9)

Or LG or Cartek or ... Sometimes I think that everyone from that other board has drifted over here. The good new is that the guys who have a clue don't make the big stink.
But Beast, they have already dropped their $3K, so the falling prices only p*ss them off

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

How do we know what was done to the mti stg 1 heads by the other guy(Hans) ? THese heads could have had a lot changed to improve them.

BOttom line, He saved money going from good heads that needed to be reworked to new heads . Dyno dont mean **** to me either. I dyno lower than most and have low end tq with my stg 1 heads done by an old school head porter that only got them to flow 257cfm int and 223 exh. Just bowl work and short turn smoothing but I have more low end with mac headers than JSears had with GTP stg 2 5.3 heads with 11.3 /1 comp. and FLP long tubes and True duals and running the TR230 cam. He dynoed 440+ rwhp but below 4000 I was 20 ftlbs tq above him. At the track he beat me by 1 tenth with him on 26x10 et drags and me on my little 16 inch Nittos.
My car was built for tq and it works great for my set up because it is still fully loaded. Mitch does seem down on power over some others but the fact that he picked up 15 rwtq over the other heads is gonna shine at the track.
I think you did great going with the new heads

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I didn't post this to be a cheerleader or a nay-sayer.
Too much energy for little to no return. Some folks get their "jollies" blowing holes in things. To each his own.

I posted to follow up on a promise I made when I first made the decision to go this route.

Most of the negative comments seem to infer extremes, glossing over the fact that I had heads that were worked, but needed attention for my application. Glossing over the fact that time and money were saved going this route. Glossing over the fact that yanking the heads was gonna happen either way. Glossing over the fact that I did see some gains.

Would I have liked to have seen more? Well, hell yes! Am I disappointed I didn't No.

I also am old enough to realize their are gonna be haters out there. I'm not asking for anyone to agree, condone, audit, evaluate, speculate or ********** my results.

I merely posted data. I'm not gonna defend what I have, but I'm also not gonna let someone go off on a tangent misinterpretting my words. That's childish and self-serving tripe. There are other websites for that kind of behavior.