superdve

Greg Banish and Dan Millen know their stuff. Greg was up to his EYEBALLS at DSW when it was just a few guys, Hoists and a Chassis Dyno. Since the merger things are changing FAST. The guys are enthusiastic, have a FABULOUS facility and talented mechanics on staff. Jeff came over from DSW and he does nice wrench work.

Banish is one of the smartest guys I know and one of the few engineers that can actually APPLY some of their schooling to our hobby. Millen is ALSO an engineer and NO SLOUCH.

I've been tuning boosted GM V6's since 1988, but when it came time to do my Basically Stock 94' Z28 with headers car Greg found 27 hp more than I did on the dyno by myself. Why? Because he knows the V8 stuff Ford or GM period. We help Greg out with cal software and he knows EXACTLY what he needs and how to get it done in the CAL.

Calibration guys like us don't MAKE horsepower, we try to FIND it and unlock it!

True it can be hard to get face time with both of these guys, they are on the phone all day long. Well worth the wait IMO.

HOSS99

APE has a Mustang Dyno!

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

Even more worth while then We will also have a Mustang dyno at Wheel to Wheel in a few months.

SDB

iTrader: (7)

So basically, they are both good tuners. I would LOVE to see a comparison of the exact same vehicle tuned at both places, I bet the dyno's would be somewhat different (different calibration) but I also be the car would run within a tenth at the track, and get the same fuel economy. With places that do good tuning, I don't believe your going to find much difference (in terms of actual performance NOT dyno numbers).

I only dyno'd at 403 rwhp (unlocked 3400 Vig multidisc, built A4), but I can run dead even with a 2000 F-body that made 523 rwhp on the exact same dyno (both tuned at Livernois Motorosports). I have a built 382 stroker, he has a stock bottom end with cam/heads/intake/full exhaust/bolt ons/Vortech w/aftercooler and a 6 speed with 4.10 gears. We are dead even on a 30 punch (horrible spot for my auto with stock 3.23 gears).

Dyno numbers don't mean ****. i have beat mustangs with up to 617 at the wheels and the dyno sheets to show everyone!!) from a dig (I told them I only had 403 rwhp, but that my horses were full sized horses and theirs were miniture pony's...they hate that one). Don't get hung up on tuners and their numbers, go the the track and see what it does, then get it tuned at a GOOD tuner, go to the track again, and if your not happy, go waste another $550 on another GOOD tuner, go the the track and see probably within a tenth of what you ran before.

SDB

Earl H

iTrader: (1)

I have had my car tuned by both...I've stated where I'll take my car for tuning when I have my 422 short block and pt76 gts. I have my reasons (mainly lack of responsiveness and inattention to details--idle quality, cold/hot startup,etc.). I've paid over $1.5K ($600-APE, $400 DSI w/my copy of LS1EDIT) to have my car tuned because I know the importance of having a good tune. It made 540rwhp on their Mustang Dyno (up and avg. of 25rwhp accross the curve) after DSI's tune, with less timing and a richer a/f ratio. I'm happy with their tuning ability.

From what I have been reading there are both happy and unhappy customers with both DSI and APE. I've spoken with APE since the ownership change and they seem to be nice guys that really want to do right by the customer. Time will tell. Personally, at this time, I just can't get over what happened when I first had my car tuned there. Doesn't mean I wont try them in the future.

At the end of the day, it boils down to who you feel most comfortable with. Call/visit both places and make the decision. I think they are both reputable shops.

unit213

So does Livernois. They also have a mobile dynojet.

2001-WS6

To answer the original question. Yes, Greg and the crew at Livernois do great work and great tuning.

They are up to the challenges of the GM LS1 world based on their experience before the shops mergered. The guys have done some very nice work on my car over the last 3 years and you won't find many 3,850lbs daily drivers that run a 10.56 1/4 on the weekend, make 1,000 mile trip in the summer with a family of four or that can drive to work in a Michigan snow storm on a -10F temp day in the winter. That takes some skills at NA and NOS tuning in addition to having the FI expertise and yes some stupidity on the owners part for playing in the snow.

I can appreciate APE's concern here though because Livernois is not a sponsor on this site. APE does good work in a very competitve Metro Detroit environment.

Rick

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

Enough said on this topic I think. We can argue it till the cows come home. Earl H had some very good points. Both shops are more than capable of doing the work, check us both out, ask questions, get a feel for who you like and then pick a shop to tune your car. Thanks,