bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Picked up 11rwhp and 3ftlbs from the swap. The dam thing randomly wants to die when pulling up to a stop light. It'll be fine for 10 lights and then it just starts to want to die and I have to hit the gas before it pops back up to normal idle. Any ideas?

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

LTFT disabled???

1nasty86

iTrader: (63)

if your using stock rockers on a tfs head with bronze valve guides you eventually will kill the guide and if you shim it you will kill the valve tip.... hope he is running roller rockers

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Post 13

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

I believe the LTFT are enabled. It just wants to die when coming to a stop and it surges and eventually it'll pick up idle or die ...one of the two. I have no idea why. Today it did it like 6 times in a row...its beginning to **** me off. Should i try turning the tb blade open a touch more?

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Disable the long terms if its doing it only in stop and go traffic... With Headers and a large cam the o2 sensors start to see pulses and become cold... The result is the PCM build a + LTFT... eventually idle starts to surge due to the added fuel that the car doesnt need...

It finally starts to load up on itself and die.... The LTFTs do work under heavier throttle but flat out suck a low RPM/speed cruise and idle...

The system was never design to work well on a unstable idling system..

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

That cut down hollow stem LS3 valve is an awesome addition to any cylinder head. More valve control=more power
Well??? We are waiting!!!
Aftermarket Comp roller rockers. Heavy suckers compared to a stock rocker I'll tell you that... I was very pleased to see what I set out to do with letting this combination make torque and shifting the torque curve slightly upwards to let torque do its thing and make horsepower. It worked and gained a ton of power under the curve and not just at peak. If you look at the two combinations on the dyno graph it's amazing to see all the average power this combination makes. The thing that really makes it impressive to me is that this car doesn't have a fancy bigger MAF, it has a factory tb that is not ported, it doesn't have a 98mm+ lid(SLP lid), it doesn't have ram-air, it doesn't have an under drive pulley, it doesn't have 1x7/8" headers, it doesn't have an electric water pump, and it doesn't have CNC machined heads. A lot of people see the words "Trick Flow" and automatically assume that they are CNC and that they should make way more power than another head, but these are as cast cylinder heads just like how a stock 243 would be made. No cnc work on the chamber, no cnc work on the runners....nothing. A set of CNC TFS 215's would gain 20rwhp easily over these and all those little mods I mentioned before would easily add another 40rwhp easily and that is being very conservative. I believe this camshaft would make over 500rwhp if someone were to want to shoot for that goal and did all those little modifications I mentioned. On top of that you'd have 500rwhp and still not give anything up under the curve to the stock cam.
Not sure if I follow what you're asking here? It is a HUC lobe indeed, they are intended for heavier valve-trains that will see sustained RPM. I like them a lot for boost and nitrous use on the exhaust side along with heavier valve and rocker N/A set-ups like BWolf has.
We are trying to figure and work the same small bugs out of Bwolf's currently. I think we need to upgrade the 5/16" push rods to 3/8" push rods on Bwolf's set-up, I think this will help gain control over the area we are seeing the instability currently.

With stock rockers and more than 400-410 open lbs. of pressure you begin to see the valve stem tips start to be chewed up. Tooley has mentioned this many times in his posts and learned this from his extensive spintron testing on many various spring set-ups, retainer set-ups and push rod set-ups.
Exactly.
All of this is correct, but staying under .625"-.630" valve lift on stock rockers is also important as any more will also do the same thing as too much open pressure. Both of these situations end up changing the wipe pattern for the worse and valve stem tips begin to suffer because of the inaccurate wipe pattern that follows excessive open pressure and lobe/valve lift.

BWolf- Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you already shim your springs within .065" of coil bind?

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

It is probably the IAC counts due to the larger throttle body and larger blade. Did you mess with the blade yet?
Read the thread!
Good information there...

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Here ya go. We disabled the LTFT today and he redid the idle a little bit better. It tried to stall on me twice with the AC on but it caught itself. I think someone else can get this done better. Anyways, it carries some more torque across the board as you can see. I still dont know why it nosedives after 6300 rpm even with the FAST.

The springs are .065" away from coil bind.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Adjust the Idle for AC on.. so when the AC is running it idles a little higher

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

As for your graph adjust the AFR to be slightly richer and run with more timing in an attempt to pull that dip out of your graph at 3800-4650


The nose dive could come from a number of things.. It doesnt look to be like a valvetrain issue as most of the time the graph will break up terribly on the dyno after 6000rpm or so...

Did you attempt to lean the AFR out to around 13.0:1 at 6200-6700??

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

I'm going to be buying HPtuners and trying fixing these issues myself. Its really frustrating because when the AC is on and when I push in the clutch say like 150-200 yards from a stop light the rpms hang at like 1700 until like 1 second AFTER i'm at a complete stop.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Adjust the Update ERR time to like 0.4secs, Update Err Max to 60, and Min ECT to 60* under the Adaptive idle.

did the base running airflow get adjusted before you started with the car cold??

If not try and RE Scan Base Running airflow on a cold start up... then make adjustments as needed. If the throttle is still hanging during rolling speed only adjust the follower..

You can start with the follower if you would like... but make the Update Err time for sure.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

TFS heads and roller rockers have had tendencies to have slight valve-train issues above 6200rpm if care isn't taken in the valve-train to keep it from happening. Only if the valve float is severe will the graph really break up like that, this really looks to be a push rod deflection issue from heavy over the nose numbers from the rockers and high open spring pressures. I kept the lobes on the mild side for this reason, but I don't think the 5/16" push rods are enough in this set-up. A 3/8" push rod IMO will help the graph stay flat from 6300 and on. That cam should be pulling to 6500 easily and staying flat till 6800-6900 rpm.

It does look like though the AFR target on the graph is at 12.5:1 and the run line doesn't go much above it the entire time and doesn't look like it touches 13.0 once. I'd have it around 12.6-12.8 with 26-28 degrees from 3500-5000 and then flat line it at 26-27 up to redline with the AFR leaning out to 12.9 around 5500 and nearing 13.0 at 6000rpm and holding 13.0-13.1 from 6000+ to the rev limiter.

The push rods BTW Brian I can do for 105.00 if you're interested. It's not much of an investment and they will only help IMO.

I agree about the tuning related information you gave Brian. I would also like to know where the IAC counts are cold and where they are while running at operating temperature.

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

I didn't tune the car. I had somebody else tune the car and I wasnt even there when he tuned it. By the looks of the graph it stays around 12.7 the whole time. My tuner said "LS engines dont make power past 6200rpm" I said to him well this isnt a stock H/C car. So I have no idea what his reasoning is. Maybe he is mad that my car made more than his LS2 vette.

Is it possible that If I go buy HPtuners that someone could look at the tune and see what they think??

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

I havent played with alot of TFS As cast heads on the dyno.. (My TFS 220's are on a Carbed LQ9 so a little different in timing if ya hear me).
But, the LS1 PRC227 heads Ive played with really like the timing... Best tune was 28-29* at 6300 RPM up on 91octane!! no KR on/off the dyno... and running 13.2 AFR!!! Best power for that setup anyway...

I probly spend wayyyyy more time on the dyno compaired to others, but I like to know what the cars im tuning really appreciate and keep it in that sweet spot for the whole curve. So I notice little things in peoples graph...

Im sure Martin could be on to something with the pushrods, considering he knows the lobes and what the cam should be pulling to... And hell for $105 and 30-45mins tops to install them... WHY NOT!

As a side note the Cammed C6Z I was tuning last week liked to run 12.4-12.6 AFR for peak power and torque with around 25* of timing 6500-6900.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

If your "tuner" is legit, have him email you the file from your car and post the tune...

or you can PM me and Ill take a quick look for ya...

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Oh I know you didn't tune it Brian.

Maybe he is taking timing out of up there, or the VE table isn't optimized it could also be knock retard as KR will make the graph look like that sometimes also.

06X6spdGTO- I agree some of these cars want 28-29 degrees, I just would rather Brian start at 26-27 up top and a little leaner to see where the power is and then add a little fuel and a degree of timing to see what it does then next. I do agree though in the mid range the optimal AFR for peak torque is 12.5-12.7 and peak hp is 12.8-13.2.

I just really think it should be starting to flatten out around 6000-6200 peak at 6400-6500 and hang on to it within 5rwhp till 6700-6800, but something is holding it back.

Hell it honestly could be the tune, it could be the dyno. Our Eddy Current Dyno Jet reads lower than every other local non eddy current Dyno Jet and lower than every other non loadable/non eddy current Dyno Jet I've seen nearly identical combo's run on. Seems like it's lower by about 3% and as much as 5-6% on some combo's compared to those other dyno's.

Bwolf's runs were made on this same type of dyno. I'm still not upset with the numbers I'm just a perfectionist and this combo runs so good that I want to see it do it's 100% best. I still stick with that this combo of heads, cam and intake will make 500rwhp with all supporting mods like other 500rwhp+ combo's have had.

I'm thinking out loud now and for the future, but man, turned down hollow stem LS3 intake valves in this thing would be badass and worth a good bit of power I would think. Also make the valve-train easier to control. Not so much something Bwolf or anyone else has to do, but if they wanted a max-effort set-up I would do it like that.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

Nice numbers!! Great job Martin

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Martin- it would be interesting to see what the KPA and stock MAF HZ reading were in that 6200rpm range. A scan log of the dyno pull would be worth its weight in gold!!!

I dont think VE being slightly off, would have much to do with it unless the car was a SD tune... It should be running on the MAF up there...


Ive dynoed on non-eddy current dynojets but was using the heavy *** Red Truck Roller (248H)..

Have been working on a NEW Mustang Dyne lately and its AWESOME!!! peak numbers dont show but the control in tuning is awesome!!!