2000 A4 Z/28 Futral F13 and Yank SS3600, disappointing numbers
04-24-2013, 08:49 PM
#21
AFR makes some amazing stuff II agree that 3900 is a bit much. Tony charges 500 for porting on an intake so that puts the FAST at 850+500=1350. Meaning the heads are still in the upper 2k range. Thats not far out of the ballpark on a good set of aftermarket heads.
However knowing that I'd looking into AI. A set of their ported 243's and a used fast intake would be around 2200 all said and done and would be within 20whp of the afr setup.
However knowing that I'd looking into AI. A set of their ported 243's and a used fast intake would be around 2200 all said and done and would be within 20whp of the afr setup.
04-25-2013, 01:01 AM
#25
Staging Lane
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Saying AI's heads can beat ANY cylinder head out there is a stretched statement.....If this were true his LS7 castings would be king of the hill, and there would be no reason for something like the Mozez, or the LSW heads to exist. Not to mention, Phil probably wouldn't be porting aftermarket castings either....
No disrespect intended, Damian.
By the way, that 6.2 you guys built put out some damn good #'s with the size of cam you have in it. Proof that ported stock castings can make good power when in capable hands.
But, as far as some of the guys (Like AI/TEA) that have a lot of time invested in their OEM port programs, their heads DO perform just as good as lot of aftermarket heads, of the same size, for a better price. You just lose out on a few benefits of the aftermarket casting. Not to mention Phil has some port programs not listed on the website that sound pretty tempting, and he took the time to modify a program to accept the "not so often" ported stock LS1 castings. A lot of guys prefer the aftermarket heads over ported OEM castings for the thicker deck surface, looking at future modification potential. To each his own.
That $1400-1500 also doesn't include shipping fee's, unless you feel like paying a core charge, if they have cores available. Look forward to adding some bills if you need that option.
Also, that 3900 as the OP stated, was for a ported manifold (1300), and a set of aftermarket heads. Which is roughly $3900. That means its in the ballpark cost of most aftermarket 215cc cathedral port castings. Unless you were talking about his hand ported 215's, with lightweight valve upgrade, spring upgrades, etc, which can yes, put you around the 3 to mid 3's on just heads. If you were going to run a power adder (such as nitrous) at the track in the future on a regular basis, that bit of extra porting isn't such a big deal. But for an all motor pump gas car your trying to squeeze every bit out of, its worth it IMO.
But you can't compare dyno numbers from different dyno's like 2xLS1 said. Every dyno reads differently, and their are many variables that will affect output. You ran 11's so far, its not too shabby.
What are you running for tires and suspension? Your 60ft could be lower, and your rear gear ratio is hurting you.
Also what have you done for weight reduction and whats the car weight in at? I noticed you mentioned that you had done some.
No disrespect intended, Damian.
By the way, that 6.2 you guys built put out some damn good #'s with the size of cam you have in it. Proof that ported stock castings can make good power when in capable hands.But, as far as some of the guys (Like AI/TEA) that have a lot of time invested in their OEM port programs, their heads DO perform just as good as lot of aftermarket heads, of the same size, for a better price. You just lose out on a few benefits of the aftermarket casting. Not to mention Phil has some port programs not listed on the website that sound pretty tempting, and he took the time to modify a program to accept the "not so often" ported stock LS1 castings. A lot of guys prefer the aftermarket heads over ported OEM castings for the thicker deck surface, looking at future modification potential. To each his own.
That $1400-1500 also doesn't include shipping fee's, unless you feel like paying a core charge, if they have cores available. Look forward to adding some bills if you need that option.
Also, that 3900 as the OP stated, was for a ported manifold (1300), and a set of aftermarket heads. Which is roughly $3900. That means its in the ballpark cost of most aftermarket 215cc cathedral port castings. Unless you were talking about his hand ported 215's, with lightweight valve upgrade, spring upgrades, etc, which can yes, put you around the 3 to mid 3's on just heads. If you were going to run a power adder (such as nitrous) at the track in the future on a regular basis, that bit of extra porting isn't such a big deal. But for an all motor pump gas car your trying to squeeze every bit out of, its worth it IMO.
But you can't compare dyno numbers from different dyno's like 2xLS1 said. Every dyno reads differently, and their are many variables that will affect output. You ran 11's so far, its not too shabby.
What are you running for tires and suspension? Your 60ft could be lower, and your rear gear ratio is hurting you.
Also what have you done for weight reduction and whats the car weight in at? I noticed you mentioned that you had done some.
Last edited by SinisterWS6; 04-25-2013 at 01:20 AM.
04-25-2013, 01:57 AM
#26
I run 315/35/17 Toyo Proxes TQs on heavy 17x11 OE ZR1s
My car is a hardtop that weighs around 3220-3240. Still has the backseats and stock front seats. Pretty much all the usual weight reduction, ac compressor , window washer reservoir etc.
I haven't changed gears because I already bought a 3.73 10 bolt that broke and I'm slowly saving for a built rear. From my research on here I'm giving up a 10th or two to say 3.73s and I felt that money could be better out towards a better performing mod choice over a ticking time bomb 10 bolt.
This was my first time to the track since 09 and was my first time running this car with the stall and cam. I know there is at least another 10th or two.
Thank you everyone for your help and insight. I know I shouldn't compare my numbers with others as there are variables. I guess at the time I was disappointed but after leaving the track at least in the 11s I feel better lol
My car is a hardtop that weighs around 3220-3240. Still has the backseats and stock front seats. Pretty much all the usual weight reduction, ac compressor , window washer reservoir etc.
I haven't changed gears because I already bought a 3.73 10 bolt that broke and I'm slowly saving for a built rear. From my research on here I'm giving up a 10th or two to say 3.73s and I felt that money could be better out towards a better performing mod choice over a ticking time bomb 10 bolt.
This was my first time to the track since 09 and was my first time running this car with the stall and cam. I know there is at least another 10th or two.
Thank you everyone for your help and insight. I know I shouldn't compare my numbers with others as there are variables. I guess at the time I was disappointed but after leaving the track at least in the 11s I feel better lol
04-25-2013, 02:37 AM
#27
Ditch the converter or get tires that hook. You're not too far off.
With ported heads i only made 36xrw.. Nitrous tune but still. I was running bottom 7s @ mid 90s barely spinning @ 3500# +2200da. Don't pay attention to dyno numbers with a stalled auto. My 370 only made 437rw.
The gears aren't hurting you much if at all.
Next mod is heads.. Leave the intake for now.. At your weight and mods it can get you in the 6s/bottom.bottom 11s.
With ported heads i only made 36xrw.. Nitrous tune but still. I was running bottom 7s @ mid 90s barely spinning @ 3500# +2200da. Don't pay attention to dyno numbers with a stalled auto. My 370 only made 437rw.
The gears aren't hurting you much if at all.
Next mod is heads.. Leave the intake for now.. At your weight and mods it can get you in the 6s/bottom.bottom 11s.
04-25-2013, 09:49 AM
#29
What was the da on that run? I think its still trapping a little low. A4's are dyno monsters or trap crazy but your still running low 90's in the 1/8 and 113 at the 1/4 with weight reduction. I'd be looking for 115ish in good da. The times look good though.
As others have said 3900 for mamos setup may look a little steep but in the grand scheme of things its about what others go for and will out perform AI/TEA however is that 20whp worth the money? You will gain everywhere in the curve not just up top. Thats up to you.
You can shop around for a used set also dont forget. And the price from AI is 995 for the porting so figure you can find a set of 799's or 243's for around 400 on here all day and yes you are right around 1400. Idk if 3900 for the afr's included springs but you would also have to factor in those on the ai's as well.
As others have said 3900 for mamos setup may look a little steep but in the grand scheme of things its about what others go for and will out perform AI/TEA however is that 20whp worth the money? You will gain everywhere in the curve not just up top. Thats up to you.
You can shop around for a used set also dont forget. And the price from AI is 995 for the porting so figure you can find a set of 799's or 243's for around 400 on here all day and yes you are right around 1400. Idk if 3900 for the afr's included springs but you would also have to factor in those on the ai's as well.
Last edited by redbird555; 04-25-2013 at 09:54 AM.
04-25-2013, 10:04 AM
#31
Not bad man. My old motor had an F14HL cam and dyno'd right around 380 on a dynojet (dart 225 heads), car went 11.9@113 with a 1.7 60ftas well, slip looked almost identical to yours. Some good ported heads and a yank ss4000 will wake the car up big time. Even with the yank 3600 though, you should be able to pull some low 1.6 60ft's which is what i pull with a vig 3200 converter and that will pick you up a couple tenths.
04-25-2013, 10:39 AM
#33
Yup once again the numbers are proven to mean very little. The car runs right where it should. Id like to see a slip after some ported heads and a fast 92.
04-25-2013, 01:41 PM
#35
You can shop around for a used set also dont forget. And the price from AI is 995 for the porting so figure you can find a set of 799's or 243's for around 400 on here all day and yes you are right around 1400. Idk if 3900 for the afr's included springs but you would also have to factor in those on the ai's as well.
Thank you. I have a few more thing I can do to improve the 60ft. I think my PHB was slightly off because on launches the car would pull to the right some. I think with those little things fixed I may be able to hit a 11.8 or high 11.7
04-25-2013, 04:14 PM
#39
I ordered the AI Dart/RHS 223cc heads without springs from AI for $1,595 about a month ago. Phil at AI said these aftermarket castings are going to be good for about 10hp over their coveted 226cc and 232cc 243/799 heads. And, that price includes the castings and port work. Mine should be here next week.