So op doesn't really want to do anything but wants to make another 60hp?

Tony's intake have been proven to make power the track and dyno results have proven it. The fact the op is "skeptical" about those results speaks volumes. Do you really think msd is going to tell you their 1000 dollar product needs work to perform optimally out of the box? Lol

Op has been told what he can do many times in this thread and refuses to believe it so idk what he wants us to tell him. A Mano ported msd would likely put him over 600

 

I concur a Mamo MSD/102TB would be the best route. I think your motor would thank you for it.

I'd say bang for buck can go to 1000hp with chinese turbos & stock shortblocks. Not N/A. We gots to work to make power.

 

You literally have a list of NO's in your post, and it happens to be all the things you need to do to hit your goal (minus E85). I'd say my reading comprehension is spot-on.

MSD would never admit their product needs work. Have you ever actually spoken to them or used their tech support? If you did, it would be pretty clear they are blowing smoke up your ***.

 

Tell me, how many LS7s that you owned have you made more than 600 rwhp on with your config?

 

Actually it's the other way around. Do you really think Tony Mamo wants you to think his 600$ port job may not be as beneficial as the internet wants to present it?

You'll be surprised but I've actually gotten 3 PM's in my inbox saying not to get a ported MSD from Tony Mamo. LOL.

 

Your just going to have to make a decision. What's more important: save a little coin, make more power.

 

I have 4 LS3 based engines that make more power than your LS7 sitting on the racks at the race shop.

 

Can you prove to the contrary? I'm willing to bet those emails are probably from other porters or people who don't have one...seeing as those who do including many tuners say it is. I have yet to see no gain from a ported msd vs a stock one from him

Also gaining 3mph before and after a port job is evidence enough for me. I have had about 5 different intake, a few fasts and an msd. The port job most of these shops do is a joke for 200 bucks. Literally looks like someone hit it with a sander and walked away. Do I think tony is expensive? Yes but then again nothing is cheap in the car world for a quality product.

My msd looked like **** out of the box and after having tony do it I can easily see where the time went. I have ported every other intake I've owned simply because it wasnt very difficult and the jobs most shops do is a joke for the money. The ONLY reason I gave my msd to tony is that they are so bad out of the box, runner alignment injector ports etc.

Here ya go these are the ports of my stock msd.








In those pictures you can see that the port alignment was so bad msd actually hit it with a dremel before the intake got shipped in an attempt to correct it. So ya keep on believeing their product doesn't need work to perform well. What you also can't see in those pics is the injector port which looked like someone just punched a 3/8 drill bit through from the top.

Here's the intake after porting. If you go look at another stock intake pic you'll see how much the injector bosses have been reshape as well as what the runners now look like





I'll leave you with this, everyone is entitled to their opinion but if mamos intake is a sham or anything he does really. Why is it that his combos with those msd intakes routinely make much more power than similar builds?

 

Sooo the answer to my question is zero? Thanks. Have a nice day and don't run into the screen door on your way out.

 

No I can't prove the contrary, but the PM's I got were from people claiming to have had first hand experience on their own cars. Just like you!

Redbird, I hope you can see I'm replying to you directly without sarcasm like the other turds in this thread. Why? Because you seem to have first hand experience.

3 MPH gain is cool and all, but if you can hit a consistent 135 or 138 every time you go down 1320, that would be the most consistent 6 speed corvette I have ever heard of. And for that reason, I'm not considering 1/4 mile performance as a true metric of the porting effectiveness. There's just too many variables.

However, there is a lot of mystery surrounding the subject of the effectiveness of Tony Mamo's work. Your pictures leave no doubt that the intake is a whole lot prettier and it is a work of art.

BUT DOES IT PERFORM? There is no definite answer as far as I can see. (YET). I'd rather do 10 hours of research on my free time than spend 600+$ out of laziness. I have no dog in this fight.

From the Horse's mouth:

I've been told directly and with no uncertainty by MY dyno operator and tuner (the ONLY other person that has an incentive to make me see the highest numbers to keep me happy) that an unported MSD makes 20 whp more than an unported FAST. This again puts me in a HE-SAID-SHE-SAID situation because those are the same gains he's claiming from his ported version.

I'm looking around now for more pictures of stock MSD intake runner ports and bell mouths. I'm 99% sure the one that I had in my hand and we installed into an LT1 didn't look like that at all.. But I could be mistaken. (P.S. That stock MSD made 35 whp more on the dyno, installed while still strapped to the dyno)

This guy took the words right out of my mouth.

It's this guy's BUSINESS to make us aware of the benefits of his services. He's been doing it since the MSD Atomizer was introduced (2014/5) and yet still no results from independent testing.

 

Here are a couple independent tests, mind you the tread was created by tony but the results are independent and the other 2 links he posted in the thread are from customers as well. Track gains for me outweigh a dyno completely, if you run 135mph on average, because like you said not every track run is the same then you go back with a ported manifold and run 138 on average that is the difference. Dyno numbers can easily be manipulated by track results can't a slight da difference won't make a 3mph change.

In that thread there is more proof than any other shops ported intakes have to offer as far as I know. There are also independent tuners in those threads who give their opinions about the manifolds as well.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...t-mamo-vs.html

 

I would not put much stock in a vendor's claim(s) from 'independent' testing.....for obvious reasons. I wouldn't care if the vendor was my own brother!

I would put stock in the claims of customers of a vendor, however. Particularly if their build was similar to mine.

IJS.....

KW

 

Guys,

I posted this on the Corvette forum recently.....if you can read through this thread and the links attached and feel the money you spend with me isn't worth every penny I suspect you were looking for an excuse not to spend it because the results/value this mod offers is tremendous and there is too much independent validation to make any argument to the contrary

MSD Intake Info (Stock vs Ported, MSD vs FAST, Mamo vs ??)

Guys,

I know this topic has been the subject of numerous threads but coming from my perspective, no matter how many independent threads come up with folks touting the gains from the work I did, so many people I speak with still question "Is it worth it....will I see a difference"....blah blah blah. I suspect this comes from a past history of buying mods that were underwhelming (or didn't work at all) when the smoke cleared which is certainly a sucky feeling after spending all the cash. I think that in some respects, guys that have been through this (no matter how much info is out there), the "Doubting Thomas" in most manages to get the upper hand unfortunately.

So with that out of the way if you are on the fence and need more convincing as to why you should be doing business with me I have some....LOL....but its a bit of a long read so grab a cup of your favorite beverage and enjoy

First topic....ported vs unported

I have touched on this numerous times in other threads so Im not going to spend alot of time here. The abridged version is the MSD is rough out of the box...some alot worse than others I might add. I have seen partial injector holes closed from plastic flashing....big mismatches from the runner to runner base transition. They are very much a moving target so the gains going from unported to ported will also be a moving target but so far I have three independent scenarios provided by my customers, two of them showing to be 20 or more horsepower gained from ported vs unported....the most recent showing close to double that (clearly his stock intake was one of the worst of the "moving targets" I mentioned earlier). Here is a copy of the dyno sheet that customer just provided me today. Same car....same dyno....same tuner....no other changes except removing his stock MSD and installing one of my ported MSD's instead.



That picture says a thousand words so there is no need to elaborate.

The other two situations can be found by clicking these links if you would like to see other independent validation of how worth it the porting is over a stock unported MSD

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...orted-msd.html

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...tony-mamo.html



2nd Topic (MSD vs Ported FAST)

Heard back from a well known tuner this morning after he recently swapped on one of my ported MSD intakes in place of a FAST



Also self explanatory and backing up many other customer testimonials I have handled in the last year that have had the opportunity to do the same (swap on a ported MSD in place of a ported FAST). The least power I have seen or heard about was 15 RWHP.....the most was 29 RWHP, and the rest was all in between those amounts in the low mid 20's similar to these results I heard or found out about this morning. Once again, if you have the time and would like to read more, this is another thread discussing the gains of my ported MSD versus the ported FAST with a handful of other results scattered in the thread as well (trying to keep this thread of reasonable length!)

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...msd-gains.html


3rd Topic....Mamo Motorsports porting vs ??

Another hot topic if your sitting in my seat. I get calls that sound like this sometimes....."Well known shop XYZ sells a ported MSD and charges half of what you do to port it. Im sure it all works the same".

NO....it doesnt....and its usually apples and oranges. Just like all "ported heads" dont work the same, a ported manifold is only as good as the guy wielding the grinder. What is his background....how much R&D has been invested....how talented and consistent is he with the grinder. Lets face it there are a hundred variables here. I have been designing cylinder heads and intake manifolds for the better part of twenty years professionally....what are the qualifications of the guy at shop XYZ....is their specialty and expertise truly related to designing the most efficient "air paths". Especially working with these composite intakes.... I pioneered porting these FAST 90's and 92's back in 2004 when most shops were asking why and telling their customers you didnt have to. I could fill a garage with all the plastic I have removed from them over the years which brings me to my last show and tell of the day.

This is a bag of chips we just removed from an unported brand new MSD. I should say at least the bulk of which we could clean up off the bench top when we were through....some of it inevitably flies on your clothing and on the floor close by but this is what we swept off a clean work station after one brand new MSD LS7 intake was ported. In essence here is what "volume" of porting is required to add 20+ ponies to your bottom line! (Coke can inserted for "scale")



Its a significant amount of carefully/strategically removed material and it can take up to 10 hours to complete an intake from start to finish.

Now....here is a pile of plastic we removed from a customer's manifold that was previously "ported" (all sounds and reads the same) from a well know shop. Dont ask because I wont name names....it doesn't matter....I see this type of thing all the time.




Not much different right....its no surprise as this intake was just a "shine job".....it was sandrolled a couple of inches at the outlet and that's it. There was no real material removal....just enough done to hopefully have the unsuspecting customer not ask questions when he removed it from the box.

Will do one better....we weighed the chips in the exact same gallon size/brand ziplock bag








Essentially the other shop removed 5% of what we take out when we completely port an LS7 MSD intake. Was half the porting cost worth it? Hell you could have had more fun lighting those Ben Franklins on fire in front of your friends because you certainly didnt add any additional horsepower to your bottom line with the porting money you sent to shop XYZ

To be real honest I could be a lot more profitable charging half the money I normally do and only do 10% of the work right? I would sell a ton more manifolds and I could probably get through one of these intakes in well under an hour if that was what I was willing to put my name on and kick out the door. That's not what Im about and those of you that know me and have dealt with me (or followed my career over the years) know the pride and effort I invest in anything Im willing to put my name on. I try to offer you guys the best value and value doesnt always mean spending less money....in fact life has shown me it's usually just the opposite. Be willing to spend a little more if it gets you ALOT more....get the most benefit from the dollars you spend and sometimes that entails spending more dollars.

And that's IT....Im off my soap box....hope you guys enjoyed and learned a little from what I spent a fair bit of time writing tonight.....and if your reading this and own an LS7 powered hot rod and dont have my MSD intake yet....seriously....its the best power per dollar your likely to invest in your car. Keep in mind all the examples provided in this thread were ported MSD versus unported....ported MSD vs ported FAST....most of the guys Im helping with stock inductions are seeing in the vicinity of 40 RWHP or better on the more aggressive builds. Thats an incredible amount of power for a Saturday afternoon spent bolting on an intake manifold.....you guys need to be all over this.

One last example for you guys....here is a thread (and a dyno graph for the lazy) to see what kind of gains you can see going from a stock LS7 intake/TB to one of my ported MSD intakes on a fairly aggressive build (BTR Stg 4 etc.)



And the thread discussing those results if your wanting to read in more detail about the swap

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...ort-gains.html


Guys, thanks for taking the time to read all this....did my best to stay on point and still cover all the ground I wanted to concerning the various topics I deal with often speaking to perspective customers about this intake and the porting itself.




Cheers,
Tony

 

I would never doubt tonys work like wolf is doing. Tony put a package together for me recently and with his package I now have the highest NA LS powered car on my tuners dyno.

If I went with what everyone else told me NOT to do on my car I would not be making the power I do. Tony knows a thing or 2 about making power.

 

I had to lol at this cause I recently had the same experience. I dynoed 40 higher than any NA 346 he's ever done on his dyno. To the point that he would call BS on the numbers except that he pulled it himself. He said - and I quote - you must have the best cylinder heads on the planet. So I explained who Tony is, etc. you won't go wrong with Tony.

And those bags of shavings are very compelling

 

I just don't like band-aiding a scenario rather then just playing it out. AKA throwing E85 at it before exhausting the other, more available options. In my experience I've built too many NA LS cars then I can count making great power, without the use of E85. However, boosted cars are a completely different story...

In my first post I said intake and TB. In second I was commenting on your response to my first "I could possibly mill some more, but I don't want to sacrifice safety and force myself into E85. I'm close to pulling the trigger on an MSD but not sure about NW yet." I think I was just elaborating the fact that the quality of the NW piece and how it'd be worth it since you already stated you were about to pull the trigger on the MSD intake. Also, the fact that I've seen high CRs without using E85.

As been show by Mamo though in posts before this, that ported MSD and NW tb is the direction I'd go.

 

Also......the Mamo ported MSD will want more air than a 90mm TB will provide.

To see the full benefit of the ported MSD, you'll want to be sure that it's properly 'fed'.....and properly tuned!

KW

 

More cubic inches http://www.erlperformance.com/produc...bolt-ls-block/
Better Heads https://www.mastmotorsports.com/coll...nt=22800298758

 

u need to really research the Cam Motion low lash solid roller cams . I know the OP said he wanted nothing to do with a solid roller but these are quieter and proven to make big power , multiple cam users stating to not have to adjust valves or anything else for that matter well after 22k miles . Thing is , you'll defiantly want to look at something other then a composite style intake because they'll usually stop making power above 6800 rpm . I'm not familiar with the MSD and whether it will but you'll wanna Rev that Cam higher then that to get pass 600 . Worth reading up on , I've been talking to Kip from Cam Motion and will be making the switch next yr , good luck

 

Read through the entire thread, an one person mentioned the best and cheapest way to hit that 620 HP, and maybe even more. If you'll do it, it might prove your other point on Manifolds, as all the testing was done on a Dynojet dyno Vs your numbers made on a Mustang Dyno. Your there right now, just get'er done. If I can pick up 49 RWHP for a total of 409 RWHP on a Dynojet Vs the 360 RWHP powertrain's setup makes on Mustang, your power train setup should bust 620 RWHP on a Dynojet.

Want effect drive-ability, with very little hit to the old pocketbook, an it just might make some question what they got for the money they've spent to make 620 RWHP on a Dynojet.

Downside, the car want be any faster...