Bad dyno tuner?
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2007
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I found this and a few others, seems there into import stuff not LS stuff. #19
piette
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Quote:Originally Posted by GreenbayTBSS 
Nice. I hear Beyond Redline has an awd dyno. Im not sure about them though after they quoted me 4hours($320) of labor to install a magnaflow catback. Thats crazy
They did the tune on my TBSS. I would not recommend them to tune anything but something with a fartcan on it. They sucked. Luke Stubbs, the owner of Beyond Redline did it himself, and all he kept saying is that LS engines are a really tricky thing to tune. After 3 hours of tuning and over $300 I walked away with about 3 hp more than I went in with and had less torque. They are a joke, don't go there!!!
Im going to be getting a tune done on my CTS-V, it sure as hell wont be them doing it
Jeff
piette
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Quote:Originally Posted by GreenbayTBSS Nice. I hear Beyond Redline has an awd dyno. Im not sure about them though after they quoted me 4hours($320) of labor to install a magnaflow catback. Thats crazy
They did the tune on my TBSS. I would not recommend them to tune anything but something with a fartcan on it. They sucked. Luke Stubbs, the owner of Beyond Redline did it himself, and all he kept saying is that LS engines are a really tricky thing to tune. After 3 hours of tuning and over $300 I walked away with about 3 hp more than I went in with and had less torque. They are a joke, don't go there!!!
Im going to be getting a tune done on my CTS-V, it sure as hell wont be them doing it
Jeff
That seems like bolt on a4 numbers. I would definitely find another tuner, also wouldn't hurt to invest in HP tuners and a wideband so you have the ability to do some logging.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,913
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From: White Bear, Mn
I would run it at the track and see what it traps before I did anything else.
It's a stalled auto. Your dyno numbers are going to suck unless you lock the converter.
My buddies setup: DYNOED 357 WHP
Full exhaust, tick SNS 3, 243 heads, YANK PT 4000.
LS6 Intake. Trapped 118 mph
My setup: 396 whp with setup in my sig.
Trapped 122 mph with lots of tranny issues. (cracked input drum)
Both cars are close to full weight also.
Both cars would make well over 400 whp through a 6 speed.
It's a stalled auto. Your dyno numbers are going to suck unless you lock the converter.
My buddies setup: DYNOED 357 WHP
Full exhaust, tick SNS 3, 243 heads, YANK PT 4000.
LS6 Intake. Trapped 118 mph
My setup: 396 whp with setup in my sig.
Trapped 122 mph with lots of tranny issues. (cracked input drum)
Both cars are close to full weight also.
Both cars would make well over 400 whp through a 6 speed.
Last edited by 98CayenneT/A; Jun 6, 2018 at 10:54 AM.
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Teching In
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
From: Shawano, WI
Bad dyno tuner? Hey guys,
This is Jim, counter guy at Beyond Redline. I have read your comments and thoughts, and thought I'd join the conversation. I'll start by saying that I myself don't do any tuning, but I have owned several built LS cars so I do have some personal experience with them.
I knew it had a pretty loose converter, but I too was surprised with the low numbers that the Firebird made. We started the dyno pulls where we did because of just how loose the converter is. Since there isn't a converter builder alive who recommends locking anything but a triple disk converter on a dyno, we didn't lock up the converter.
Beyond Redline has tuned hundreds of LS powered cars, some making more power than owners expected, some less. We tune cars so that they will live, not blow up the first time they see a tank full of subpar gasoline.
As you can tell from the A/F ratio, fuel is well within acceptable levels. We started with minimal ignition timing and added more in until the car stopped making power, then backed up just a bit. As you all know there are tons of variables between brands of dynos, and every vehicle will make different horsepower, even with the same parts.
I have been in contact with Road_House and we've discussed the concerns he's expressed on here and also some minor cold start issues and he'll be bringing the car back for a little tweaking soon.
This is Jim, counter guy at Beyond Redline. I have read your comments and thoughts, and thought I'd join the conversation. I'll start by saying that I myself don't do any tuning, but I have owned several built LS cars so I do have some personal experience with them.
I knew it had a pretty loose converter, but I too was surprised with the low numbers that the Firebird made. We started the dyno pulls where we did because of just how loose the converter is. Since there isn't a converter builder alive who recommends locking anything but a triple disk converter on a dyno, we didn't lock up the converter.
Beyond Redline has tuned hundreds of LS powered cars, some making more power than owners expected, some less. We tune cars so that they will live, not blow up the first time they see a tank full of subpar gasoline.
As you can tell from the A/F ratio, fuel is well within acceptable levels. We started with minimal ignition timing and added more in until the car stopped making power, then backed up just a bit. As you all know there are tons of variables between brands of dynos, and every vehicle will make different horsepower, even with the same parts.
I have been in contact with Road_House and we've discussed the concerns he's expressed on here and also some minor cold start issues and he'll be bringing the car back for a little tweaking soon.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,913
Likes: 366
From: White Bear, Mn
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
From: Shawano, WI
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 141
Likes: 2
Hey guys,
This is Jim, counter guy at Beyond Redline. I have read your comments and thoughts, and thought I'd join the conversation. I'll start by saying that I myself don't do any tuning, but I have owned several built LS cars so I do have some personal experience with them.
I knew it had a pretty loose converter, but I too was surprised with the low numbers that the Firebird made. We started the dyno pulls where we did because of just how loose the converter is. Since there isn't a converter builder alive who recommends locking anything but a triple disk converter on a dyno, we didn't lock up the converter.
Beyond Redline has tuned hundreds of LS powered cars, some making more power than owners expected, some less. We tune cars so that they will live, not blow up the first time they see a tank full of subpar gasoline.
As you can tell from the A/F ratio, fuel is well within acceptable levels. We started with minimal ignition timing and added more in until the car stopped making power, then backed up just a bit. As you all know there are tons of variables between brands of dynos, and every vehicle will make different horsepower, even with the same parts.
I have been in contact with Road_House and we've discussed the concerns he's expressed on here and also some minor cold start issues and he'll be bringing the car back for a little tweaking soon.
This is Jim, counter guy at Beyond Redline. I have read your comments and thoughts, and thought I'd join the conversation. I'll start by saying that I myself don't do any tuning, but I have owned several built LS cars so I do have some personal experience with them.
I knew it had a pretty loose converter, but I too was surprised with the low numbers that the Firebird made. We started the dyno pulls where we did because of just how loose the converter is. Since there isn't a converter builder alive who recommends locking anything but a triple disk converter on a dyno, we didn't lock up the converter.
Beyond Redline has tuned hundreds of LS powered cars, some making more power than owners expected, some less. We tune cars so that they will live, not blow up the first time they see a tank full of subpar gasoline.
As you can tell from the A/F ratio, fuel is well within acceptable levels. We started with minimal ignition timing and added more in until the car stopped making power, then backed up just a bit. As you all know there are tons of variables between brands of dynos, and every vehicle will make different horsepower, even with the same parts.
I have been in contact with Road_House and we've discussed the concerns he's expressed on here and also some minor cold start issues and he'll be bringing the car back for a little tweaking soon.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
I just went through this last week, put the car on the rollers.... and it put down weak numbers, but runs decent at the track. As a few others have said already, take the car to the track.... let the track do the talking.
ANY competent tuner that's familiar with the platform would look at the parts in the build and the fucked up graph (look at the early peaks and lazy curves) and realize there's a problem and have a pretty good suggestion as to the culprit.
Last edited by Marc 85Z28; Jun 12, 2018 at 08:14 AM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
tuner said everything is good. If anything could be wrong he wouldn't know. He said it could be anything from push rods, rocker arms to the torque converter and everything in between.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
Tell me what looks fucked up in that graph? You said early peaks and lazy curves but seeing as how the horsepower peaks around 6200 rpm and peak torque is around 5000 rpms I don't see anything indicating that cam that is off a tooth or anything like that. It peaks in all of the right areas and the curve looks appropriate for an unlocked dyno pull, the power is a bit low but that could be a bunch of different things non of which could be the tuners fault. Making horsepower is easy, add timing until it stops making power and make sure your a/f is correct and what else can the tuner do to make power? The tuner himself came on here and backed that up.
If the tuner said it looks good then it could be anything like he said. A tuner can't make horsepower come out of nowhere, and yes it could be the wrong pushrod length or something being wrong with the converter, transmission, etc. I've been in that same situation many times where the customer is looking at me like what's wrong, as a tuner you can adjust timing and fuel to make power and THATS IT. If you have the fueling correct and it's taking as much timing as it will take then you can't do anything else and there is something else going on.