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Old Jul 12, 2022 | 06:46 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by jmilz28
Everyone is talking about power and knock resistance, and rightfully so, but that is not the whole story. That extra money you think you are saving with E85 goes out the window because you get WAY less MPGs with E. Why? Energy density of gas vs E. If this is a car you put miles on, you will do better with gas until the price hits 2x what E is. E85 has a purpose but don't be confused, saving money ain't it.
As long as E85 is at least 1.00 a gallon cheaper vs the pump fuel you were running before then the cost of operation is cheaper. You lose about 3mpg on full E85...most pump E usually lands around 75-80% in the summer. On a daily driver that can run 87 octane, yea I agree you won't save a dime being the cost difference between the 2 fuels are often less then .60. However if you have to run premium 91-93 octane, it can save a little being 93 often runs 1.50-2.00 a gallon more then E around here. Not all areas of the country are the same either. Imo any performance car that requires at least 91 octane would benefit from running E. It smells better(especially on a cam car with a lot of positive overlap), makes a little more power on some NA setups and a lot more on others, also burns cleaner. I'll take it all day and twice on Sunday over pump gas.
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Old Jul 13, 2022 | 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kinglt-1
As long as E85 is at least 1.00 a gallon cheaper vs the pump fuel you were running before then the cost of operation is cheaper. You lose about 3mpg on full E85...most pump E usually lands around 75-80% in the summer. On a daily driver that can run 87 octane, yea I agree you won't save a dime being the cost difference between the 2 fuels are often less then .60. However if you have to run premium 91-93 octane, it can save a little being 93 often runs 1.50-2.00 a gallon more then E around here. Not all areas of the country are the same either. Imo any performance car that requires at least 91 octane would benefit from running E. It smells better(especially on a cam car with a lot of positive overlap), makes a little more power on some NA setups and a lot more on others, also burns cleaner. I'll take it all day and twice on Sunday over pump gas.
It's all tradeoffs and I agree with all of that, except it would be better to pin it to a % difference in price vs range, not a dollars and cents amount since that will change as prices change. Here is one article where the results are typical of the differences: more power, less MPGs, cleaner smelling. The difference in MPGs depends on which way you are stating it/comparing from. The E was 26% less fuel efficient than gas. If you start from the gas, the gas is 36% more fuel efficient than E. This is what you should pin the comparison to, just using the price/gallon of whatever fuel you are using. Premium will certainly affect the price comparison and tighten up the difference. It might even make it a wash overall in some cases, but it won't affect the range at all. I am not bad mouthing E85, I think it's super useful to have as an option. Just don't think people should be confused thinking they are saving money as in *most* cases, they are not. It's a common misconception - kinda like when people only count parts cost in a DIY build. It doesn't account for the time (and knowledge) that goes into it.

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy...ison-test.html
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Old Jul 14, 2022 | 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wannafbody
And you ain't gonna feel 11 hp on the buttometer
You are right you won't feel the difference but 10 hp through the whole rpm range start to finish is worth a lot more than 10 hp peak. This is enough gain to lower his Et at the track and that's what we are after .
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Old Jul 14, 2022 | 10:50 AM
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who does mods and worries about gas mileage
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Old Jul 15, 2022 | 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by zzracer
You are right you won't feel the difference but 10 hp through the whole rpm range start to finish is worth a lot more than 10 hp peak. This is enough gain to lower his Et at the track and that's what we are after .
Exactamundo! Total power under the curve while accelerating, once for each gear, factoring in traction, 60', and shift times gets you close. It's even more complicated than that AND you have to factor in the type of racing to be super thorough but that is why you'll hear the experienced guys say "area under the curve". Best single phrase to keep you focused. It's also why for years big blocks rated at 200hp could beat small blocks and turbo 4s with 300hp...
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Old Jul 15, 2022 | 11:09 PM
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Torque wins drag races horsepower wins internet races
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Old Jul 16, 2022 | 07:56 PM
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It made more torque too!
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Old Jul 17, 2022 | 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by madmike9396
who does mods and worries about gas mileage
Old guys like me who like to road trip the result.
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Old Jul 19, 2022 | 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by madmike9396
who does mods and worries about gas mileage
Damnit you beat me to it. For years I've laughed at guys on here doing all these mods and then asking about gas mileage. Yeh I know it's their daily driver. Well then if gas mileage is such a concern get a different daily driver. You can spend $2500 on heads and cam but can't spend $1000 on a beater car to drive back and forth to work. Give me a break.
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Old Jul 19, 2022 | 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by wannafbody
And you ain't gonna feel 11 hp on the buttometer
Well madmike9396 and zzracer can tell you I'm a fatass so I doubt I'd notice 50hp on the "buttometer".
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Old Jul 19, 2022 | 02:47 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by jmilz28
Everyone is talking about power and knock resistance, and rightfully so, but that is not the whole story. That extra money you think you are saving with E85 goes out the window because you get WAY less MPGs with E. Why? Energy density of gas vs E. If this is a car you put miles on, you will do better with gas until the price hits 2x what E is. E85 has a purpose but don't be confused, saving money ain't it.
I have literally never checked the gas mileage of a single vehicle I have ever owned. I've always kept my cars up to date on plugs, oil, filters, et. The gas mileage is what it is. Provided its not way out of whack indicating some other issue with the vehicle I see no need to worry about it. That's just me.

Engine has been in the car 12 yrs. Has around 13,000 miles on it. It's just a toy.
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