Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

So the 90mm intake is worth 28 rwhp now? It hasn't shown that kinda gain on the best 427, muchless a 346. 5-10 at the most on the intake on the 346. I'm not trying to down anything, I just don't see why the other cars aren't making near the power. Thus my sceptacism. Maybe by the time the 250 dyno's were done they had a new short block built for it. That's more or less a dyno *****.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

I'm not doubting your car Tony. You don't have to bring it car here to show me. I don't want to sound like I'm bad mouthing anything, I'm just sceptical of other cars that SHOULD have seen a bit more power. As good as any one tuner may be, there are always better or at least one as good in other area's. I'd hate to know I had to get everthing on my car done by LAPD to replicate the results you guys got.

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

Good Numbers, the AFR heads have a lot to offer, and have the best ports of any of the LSX based heads. Now only if they would sell them to me Bare and w/o the valve seats.

O2bqwik

iTrader: (6)

the numbers came from LAPD same shop that did tonys car

John B

iTrader: (10)

Did everyone suddenly forget about the independent test performed by LG Motorsports where Lou got in the 480RWHP range using the TPIS modified LS6 intake/Oval TB and a G5X3 cam? How quickly we forget.....lighten up guys!

Everyone wants a "bolt-on" package where you just slap it together and whola....475+ RWHP....this would be the case if part of the package included having a technician degree'g in your cam (and possibly advancing or retarding the cam depending on the results), measure your piston distance "out of the hole" to determine the proper head gasket thickness for optimum quench, verify port matching of an aftermarket intake, use of a larger TB, proper sizing of the exhaust system, and lastly spending countless hours on the dyno tweaking the timing in 1° increments & tweaking the the A/F ratio both for max power at high RPM and max torque at mid RPM but not many people have the time, patience or money to follow this route therefore you don't see as many top notch results. Some are just plain lucky and slap something together and it works but it's just that.....luck that all of the critical elements happened to be just where they needed to be.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

when my setup is done in a few weeks i might drive up to LAPD just to compare my combo vs the AFR on the same dyno.

Malibu Vette

iTrader: (1)

I saw Tonys car at A&A corvettes BBQ. It made unreal torque. I cant wait to see that car on the track, or for that matter line up against him on "a closed course with professional drivers" for a little action. He has been instrumental in a friends car that should be done next week that we expect big things from.

71CamaroLS1

Exactly my thoughts. Tony designed the 205 head with a specific outcome in mind - good power with excellent driveability, throttle response, low end. Then he put a great deal of experimentation into optimizing a package around the goals of that head, and by working every little detail and trying lots of things has managed to get some impressive results. Talk to him about his combo - it's more than just heads, it's the best headers, cam with exactly the right specs and advance, TB, underdrive, rockers, lifters, springs, hand work on intake and lid, EWP, max possible compression, and then far more dyno time than 99% of combos ever get. Bottom line: the details matter.

And it's no accident that the best numbers have come from LAPD - they've had by far the most experience tuning that combo. It's like Cartek and their packages - they work the details until the combo makes more than it "should" based on specs.

71CamaroLS1

One more key to Tony's big # - compression. He's using a 61CC chamber. Running the numbers, with .008 out of deck and .040 compressed thickness cometic gasket, I get 11.5-1 compression. Yikes. I ordered my heads at 63CC, which still comes out 11.2. The only way he gets away with that much pump gas compression is tight quench, good chamber design, and later intake valve close (224 intake lobe at 113 ICL).

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Hey Guys...

Not everyone's piston is .008 out of the hole. My engine happened to be .003-.004 depending on which hole you checked (but all of them seemed very consistant). The GM "spec" for piston to deck is .005 in the hole to .020 out of the hole....I have a hunch that is why they deviated from years past by going with thicker .050+ head gaskets. It covers all ground in the event a particular engine might have a deck height closer to the .020 figure....An .040 thick head gasket would only yeild .020 "piston to deck" with that set-up....Waaaaay too close for comfort even with the tighter piston to wall tolerances (and subsequent less "piston rock")these engines are typically set up with. In general, it seems most of the LS engines I have seen come apart are usually .002-.008 out of the hole, but once again checking "piston to deck" is just one of the many finer DETAILS that must be checked and accounted for if you wish to achieve optimal results in any kind of high performance engine build up.

By the way, just to clarify once again (I've gone over this on another thread), the CR in my combination is exactly 11.18 to 1 with an .040 gasket and a 61 cc head. (FYI....62 cc's yeilds exactly 11.0 with all the same variables)

And one more thing....Here is another AFR 205 build-up (at a different shop) that yeilded excellent results on a dyno known to be "stingy" here in the LA area.
I worked very closely with this customer in helping him to mimic the "AFR street package" we have been touting for a few months now. This was an LS6 block built combination with every bolt-on featured on my C5 (ported FAST intake and electric WP included), stock 3.42 gearing, but I designed a slightly more aggressive custom cam for him as he didn't mind a little lope at idle and was looking for as much power as he could have while still retaining "good street manners"....It had 234/238 XER lobes @ .050 with a 111 LSA. While this cam isn't "small" or mild by any means, it still provides good drivability and doesn't have the low speed surging and other issues associated with some of the larger grinds out there.

Here is a link to the dyno graph and thread discussing the results....

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...=915238&page=1

Regards,
Tony Mamo

71CamaroLS1

Hey Tony,

Good to see results from another customer.

Not to get in an argument - especially since I'm a customer of yours and will need your help in the future - but here are the calculations I run for the combination you list, using .003 out of hole:

3.9 x 3.9 x 12.8704 = 195.75cc per inch

195.75 x .040 = 7.83cc gasket volume

195.75 x .003 = .59cc piston "dome" volume

195.75 x 3.62 = ~709cc displacement volume

61 + 7.83 - .59 = 68.24 combustion volume

(709 + 68.24) / 68.24 = 11.39 compression

Assumptions: no valve reliefs, cometic gasket bore 3.9 or very close

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

I believe the gasket ID of the cometic gaskets we had made for us is 3.940 so the gasket wouldn't hang into the chamfers on top of the bore. That would yeild exactly 8 cc's net (7.99 based on my quick calculations), and the one thing you forgot to consider which is factored into the computer program I have for figuring compression ratios is the volume between the piston and the bore above the top ring land. The piston is much smaller there than the actual diameter say .500 or so under the ring pack in the middle of the piston skirt. There is not a ton of volume there but more than you think if you stood there with a burette and tried to pour and fill the crevice around the entire piston circumference.

I believe the 11.18 is a fairly accurate figure based on the computer program I have, but I certainly don't have a problem with you questioning it armed with the information you had. Also, I know you made a lot of positive comments regarding the heads and the work that went into them etc., and I knew you were just trying to post information you felt was accurate.

Make sure you contact me if you need any input on your AFR headed combination...

Regards,
Tony

02SOMWS6

iTrader: (6)

I have the same cam with a set of ARE stage 2 heads and stock LS6 intake.That combo made almost 50 rwhp more than me.I now there is more tobe had from mine with some other mods but I dont think I would gain 50rwhp.Those are damm good #'s.I would have a mid 10 second NA car with those #'s.I might have to sell my combo and start over,or build a stroker and go with the 225's that ARF has

jaberwaki

just look at all that yummy, usable tq!!!!!

FASTONE

Do you think a .2 difference in CR would make that much of a variable in horsepower or torque.Now the quench is where you can look for some hp.I still can"t believe we haven"t seen some track times from these cars!! I think the AFR is a good head though!! Maybe AFR needs to recommend specific cam timing(ICL),specific ignition timing at say 500 rpm ingrements and the same on the fuel curve.That would eleminate any tuning being way off and should produce very similar results to Tony"s car.

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

Hey Tony, I have a Z06, if I buy your heads, your cam will u send me your edit file? Say yes-I'll order a set tomorrow!

TTPMatt

iTrader: (18)

We just got a 481rwhp/417rwtq numbers out of Tony's heads. Check out our thread in the dynameter archives section.