What can I expect with full bolt-ons???
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From: Blairsville, GA
What can I expect with full bolt-ons??? I looked and couldn't find an answer, so who has a good guesstimate on the most power you can expect out of a bolt-on only F-body???
There's a company in Cleveland TN that claims to be able to put down 400 RWHP doing only bolt-ons, so I'm curious.
There's a company in Cleveland TN that claims to be able to put down 400 RWHP doing only bolt-ons, so I'm curious.
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From: The South
If this is the company I am thinking of, it's probably 
. There is a company that claims this and the story I heard said that stephen (sp?) aka colonel (i think....) made them an offer along the lines of him offering a car for the work and dyno but the car had to make 400 rwhp and then he had to verify that nothing was done internally....which they declined.
Basically, you can NOT make 400 rwhp with an internally stock, naturally aspirated LS1. The highest you can probably make is ~365 rwhp and that would be great.
. There is a company that claims this and the story I heard said that stephen (sp?) aka colonel (i think....) made them an offer along the lines of him offering a car for the work and dyno but the car had to make 400 rwhp and then he had to verify that nothing was done internally....which they declined. Basically, you can NOT make 400 rwhp with an internally stock, naturally aspirated LS1. The highest you can probably make is ~365 rwhp and that would be great.
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
If this is the company I am thinking of, it's probably . There is a company that claims this and the story I heard said that stephen (sp?) aka colonel (i think....) made them an offer along the lines of him offering a car for the work and dyno but the car had to make 400 rwhp and then he had to verify that nothing was done internally....which they declined.
Basically, you can NOT make 400 rwhp with an internally stock, naturally aspirated LS1. The highest you can probably make is ~365 rwhp and that would be great.
. There is a company that claims this and the story I heard said that stephen (sp?) aka colonel (i think....) made them an offer along the lines of him offering a car for the work and dyno but the car had to make 400 rwhp and then he had to verify that nothing was done internally....which they declined. Basically, you can NOT make 400 rwhp with an internally stock, naturally aspirated LS1. The highest you can probably make is ~365 rwhp and that would be great.
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From: Blairsville, GA
Thanks, y'all. I want to go as little into this car as possible, seeing how it's our family car(Ain't we a cool family???), and that my wife drives it to work everyday. I think we could live with a 12-sec car.
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From: The South
Originally Posted by OdessitPashka
Hey man. I just went on your CarDomain page and saw all of your mods. I'm very surprised you are not making over 400whp with such an agressive cam.
12 second car is cake. Just a few bolt-ons and some good driving will get you there.
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From: England
Originally Posted by Ric
I looked and couldn't find an answer, so who has a good guesstimate on the most power you can expect out of a bolt-on only F-body???
There's a company in Cleveland TN that claims to be able to put down 400 RWHP doing only bolt-ons, so I'm curious.
There's a company in Cleveland TN that claims to be able to put down 400 RWHP doing only bolt-ons, so I'm curious.
It also depends on how and where the car is dyno'd. A dynojet will often return higher numbers than a Mustang dyno, yet they are still both fairly inaccurate.
If you had a late model 01/02 M6 it could dyno 320rwhp. If you beleive some of the claims of after market bolt ons then maybe it could be possible.
All numbers I have seen quoted at some time or another, but I'm using them purly as ball park figures:
-Lid/FTRA/Filter = 13rwhp
-LT's sans Cats and exhaust = 40rwhp
-electric water pump = 20rwhp
-Bigger TB = 8rwhp
-Lsx intake = 20rwhp
-pulley = 8rwhp
-TB bypass = 6rwhp
-smooth bellows = 2rwhp
-Tune = 12rwhp
So,
320+13+40+20+8+20+8+6+2+12 = 449rwhp
You could then add lightweight transmission components and wheels and maybe net a few more rwhp, although it would not be increasing engine output.
HOWEVER
Having a good intake and exhaust setup will only get you so far, as without improving the internal flow of the heads and the lift of the camshaft you will likely get to a point where the mods will yeild little or no results. Remember these after market bolt ons claim an HP gain over a stock car not modified. Push the boundaries a little further with a new cam and there no reason you couldn't have some serious bhp.
I think it was Hot Rod mag took a GM crate Ls1 (320bhp SAE rated) added the GM hot cam, GM carb conversion, Lt's and an electric water pump (don't think there where any other mods). Not sure but it probably wasn't driving the alternator or air con and had no exhaust apart from headers.
On an engine dyno it made 505bhp. so even if we assume 15% drivetrain loss that would still yield nearly 430rwhp.
As I said unlikely but certainly not totally impossible.
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From: The South
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
not impossible, but unlikely IMO.
It also depends on how and where the car is dyno'd. A dynojet will often return higher numbers than a Mustang dyno, yet they are still both fairly inaccurate.
If you had a late model 01/02 M6 it could dyno 320rwhp. If you beleive some of the claims of after market bolt ons then maybe it could be possible.
All numbers I have seen quoted at some time or another, but I'm using them purly as ball park figures:
-Lid/FTRA/Filter = 13rwhp
-LT's sans Cats and exhaust = 40rwhp
-electric water pump = 20rwhp
-Bigger TB = 8rwhp
-Lsx intake = 20rwhp
-pulley = 8rwhp
-TB bypass = 6rwhp
-smooth bellows = 2rwhp
-Tune = 12rwhp
So,
320+13+40+20+8+20+8+6+2+12 = 449rwhp
It also depends on how and where the car is dyno'd. A dynojet will often return higher numbers than a Mustang dyno, yet they are still both fairly inaccurate.
If you had a late model 01/02 M6 it could dyno 320rwhp. If you beleive some of the claims of after market bolt ons then maybe it could be possible.
All numbers I have seen quoted at some time or another, but I'm using them purly as ball park figures:
-Lid/FTRA/Filter = 13rwhp
-LT's sans Cats and exhaust = 40rwhp
-electric water pump = 20rwhp
-Bigger TB = 8rwhp
-Lsx intake = 20rwhp
-pulley = 8rwhp
-TB bypass = 6rwhp
-smooth bellows = 2rwhp
-Tune = 12rwhp
So,
320+13+40+20+8+20+8+6+2+12 = 449rwhp
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From: England
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
EWP not get you 20 rwhp, LSX will not get you anywhere near 20 rwhp on a NA SI motor, bellows and TB bypass might be worth 1 rwhp each....and if you did a bunch of searching or had been around for awhile and seen things you would know that nobody has come near 400 rwhp SI. As far as I know the highest is in the 360's. 400 rwhp is a goal for cammed LS1's that as of now is UNOBTAINABLE SI. This is where we stand right now.
Also I then said that quoted gains are always compared to stock, and that this amount is unlikely. But there are people who have dyno'd higher than you claim. As most people don't do all the bolt ons, they usually do some then get a cam or go FI.
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From: The South
I did read the whole thing and saw the discaimer on ballpark, but 20 rwhp from an LSX or EWP on an SI motor is far from ballpark.
SO, you are claiming 370+ rwhp on a NA, SI (bolt on only) LS1 F-body? Care to back that claim up with a proven example? I can't think of any, and even if there were that's still a LONG way from 400.
SO, you are claiming 370+ rwhp on a NA, SI (bolt on only) LS1 F-body? Care to back that claim up with a proven example? I can't think of any, and even if there were that's still a LONG way from 400.
I've seen lots of bolt on LS1 dyno's, and I'd say most full bolt on cars make 34x-35x rwhp. I don't know what the record is, But I'd have to guess the average # is around 346ish rwhp. Of course that is an average #, so some are higher and some are lower. I don't see how 400rwhp is possible. Some bolt on Z06's can make 370ish rwhp though.
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From: The South
400 rwhp is, as far as we know, impossible. I'd venture a guess that 370 rwhp hasn't been done without "tricks", if at all.
If anybody wishes to argue against that, please bring some kind of example/proof.
If anybody wishes to argue against that, please bring some kind of example/proof.
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From: England
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
I did read the whole thing and saw the discaimer on ballpark, but 20 rwhp from an LSX or EWP on an SI motor is far from ballpark.
SO, you are claiming 370+ rwhp on a NA, SI (bolt on only) LS1 F-body? Care to back that claim up with a proven example? I can't think of any, and even if there were that's still a LONG way from 400.
SO, you are claiming 370+ rwhp on a NA, SI (bolt on only) LS1 F-body? Care to back that claim up with a proven example? I can't think of any, and even if there were that's still a LONG way from 400.
As I said if you BELIEVE the marketing people....and these are figures I have seen quoted.
Originally Posted by From FAST, info found on EPP website
To make the LSX™ a true bolt on product, it is made to fit under a stock hood and uses all factory hardware, fuel lines and linkages. However, the runners were redesigned to increase velocity and volume of airflow by moving air more efficiently. The LSX™’s longer, tapered runners allow it to gain top end horsepower without sacrificing low-end torque. With 25% more plenum volume, each runner is allowed to draw from less turbulent air. As the air enters the runners at the bell mouth, the angles are redesigned for better runner inlet transition. The throttle body is specially angled for improved plenum flow. For all of these reasons, you can expect up to 20 more bolt on horsepower and 15 more foot-pounds of torque**.
As for knowing what is the max, well I don't know. Is there anyone out there that can claim to have full bolt ons and let us know. Probably not, becuase its cheaper to do some bolt ons and a cam and you'll see more gains.
And as I already mentioned, dyno results are very unreliable. Not just Mustang v Dynojet but if any correction calculations are used. Or even dynoing in the wrong gear. It really wouldn't be hard to 'dyno' a bolt on car and acheive 400rwhp. It just wouldn't be genuine.
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EWP is worth about 5-10 RWHP. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Lid = about 10-12 RWHP. I've also seen this back to back.
Paper filter vs. Hiflow filter = no measurable difference.
Smooth bellows = about zero HP
TB bypass = about the same
I did see a 02 Z06 dyno 391 RWHP with a 78mm LSX intake and 1 3/4 kooks longtubes with x pipe and hiflow cats. This car had basically all the boltons except the EWP so 400 could have been possible.
Fbody with full boltons maybe 370.
Lid = about 10-12 RWHP. I've also seen this back to back.
Paper filter vs. Hiflow filter = no measurable difference.
Smooth bellows = about zero HP
TB bypass = about the same
I did see a 02 Z06 dyno 391 RWHP with a 78mm LSX intake and 1 3/4 kooks longtubes with x pipe and hiflow cats. This car had basically all the boltons except the EWP so 400 could have been possible.
Fbody with full boltons maybe 370.
Last edited by LS7SS; Aug 24, 2005 at 04:26 AM.
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Trust me, I know all about the TB bypass. I'd just fixed a leaky line under the bathroom sink and had some tubing left over, so I bypassed the TB... I gained about .09365 hp, believe it or not. 
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From: The South
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
Once again....
As I said if you BELIEVE the marketing people....and these are figures I have seen quoted.
As I said if you BELIEVE the marketing people....and these are figures I have seen quoted.
Dude, numbers don't get any more fake than that, you were adding power like ricers. Let's just stick to the end result. Anybody have even a measly 370 rwhp out of a bolt on only car???????
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From: Atlanta, GA
Ok, well if this helps I have all the bolt-ons basically except an electric water pump and I'm making 343.3rwhp. I DO NOT have a tune and I MAY be able to nudge it up close to 355rwhp once my @$%^ing HPTuners gets here.
QUOTE: Let's just stick to the end result. Anybody have even a measly 370 rwhp out of a bolt on only car???????
Do a search, I've seen a couple of Zo6's making this #+. Personally, I don't think 370rwhp is "measly." The most I've seen an LS1 dyno is close to 360rwhp, and this is not the norm. There are lots of bolt on guys with cams not making 370rwhp.
Do a search, I've seen a couple of Zo6's making this #+. Personally, I don't think 370rwhp is "measly." The most I've seen an LS1 dyno is close to 360rwhp, and this is not the norm. There are lots of bolt on guys with cams not making 370rwhp.