Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Water Pump was a Mezeirre electric unit basically designed for dyno testing LS1's....obviously there was no loss of power from having to spin a mechanical impellor.

Regarding the "packages", AFR will offer everything featured in the testing with the possible exception of the big hydraulic cam (we won't stock that grind but could spec and build it for anyone interested in 10-14 days). All other hardware will be stocking items at AFR....the whole object of all this testing (besides our own product's R&D) is to offer our customers choices and proven performance packages.

Tony M.

ta_silver_bullet

iTrader: (9)

Sounds like yall are on the ball over at AFR. I like what i see so far(as if i allreday didnt love the heads that come out of AFR lol) but this just shows yall are willing to do some comparisons for your customers to get the best package they can get. On that note do you have any pricing est. right now? you should be seeing buisness from me in the near future also i will compliment someone doing work with the 383 guys i havnt seen alot of info on them for LS1's mostly LT1's the ls1 guys are alot of 408's and 402's from what i have seen. so again thanks and keep us updated.

-Chris

gollum

iTrader: (1)

Tony,
What Air Fuel Ratio and Ignition Timing setting did you like most while testing. Or what would be a good starting point to work with while tuning.

Does Lean Air Fuel Ratio (13.7-14.1) make more power than the commonly posted standerd of 13.00? What Air Fuel Ratio and timing settings did you use during WOT testing.

memphisTa

iTrader: (2)

That's awesome Tony!! Great Job man. I would also like to thank you for always being so informative and involved on the board. Thanks, jeremy

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Very detailed write-up Tony. Welcome back from the honeymoon.

Ben R

I can assume this was all with 93 octane gas?

I would be interested to see the power increase with your 225cc version of the head.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

TEST ONE:



TEST TWO:



TEST THREE:



TEST FOUR:



TEST FIVE:



TEST SIX:

jrp

iTrader: (16)

TEST 1 VS TEST 2



TEST 2 VS TEST 3



TEST 3 VS TEST 4



TEST 3 VS TEST 5



TEST 5 VS TEST 6



TEST 1 VS TEST 6

SideStep

Nice. Probably the most empirical and complete study in HP I have ever seen.

Hardtop

iTrader: (3)

Great info, thanks for the time it took to assemble it. I hope some of the other cylinder head mfg's do the same level of testing, and share the results like this. Props to AFR, and Tony.

Bruce

52172

iTrader: (2)

will the 234-238 cam pass the sniffer? Tony do you think you would ever be interested in designing a new intake for gen3 ls series motors like ET performance is? Their new intake will outflow a ported fast 90 and they say even a new ls7 intake?

BlueSix

Those SR combo's are making a lot more power than i thought i would see a 383 make.

Outstanding numbers

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Thanks Guys....

While it was certainly alot of work (and time) to prepare for and ultimately conduct all the testing I have highlighted above (a small percentage of ALL the testing we actually conducted), the information gathered here was excellent, and like most good things, worth all the effort invested. I would also like to publically thank the owners of AirFlow Research for allowing this kind of testing to actually happen. While I put a significant amount of my personal time into the results discussed, it also took quite a chunk out of the time I spent at the office, not to mention the five days I was missing while I was conducting the actual testing. AFR truly is about airflow research ....Our constant quest to be the best and provide you with guys with the best product we are capable of producing will insure that this type of dedication and time consuming R&D will continue in the future as well. Once again....hat's off to the owners of AFR.....I'm proud to be part of the team.

Regarding a question concerning the sniffer test with a 234/238, as you can clearly see by the gragh that there was little loss of low and midrange TQ/HP when compared to the 224 grind (with a bunch more top end charge), make no mistake about the fact that the idle quality took a hit as evident by the 4" drop in vacuum at the same test RPM (900). The additional overlap of the larger lobes would be too much to pass a sniffer test....you would need a combination that produces at least 15" of idle vacuum before it could go either way. The 224 cammed version of this engine however would pass emissions (with the right tune), and would be a great street motor for a guy not looking to set the world on fire at the dragstrip. Perfect driving manners, big block type TQ available at usuable low RPM's, and still putting up a solid 550 HP carrying from 6000-6500 RPM's. With a probable 6800ish shiftpoint that combination would probably surprise a lot of people.

Concerning intake manifolds, AFR has no immediate plans of entering that market but are obviously keeping an eye on the various developments and choices in that area as they ultimately have a direct effect and benefit on our own product if we can get more flow into the cylinders (and make better use of our port designs)....waiting to see documeted results on a few products we hear are currently in the works.

On Monday I am going to enlist the help of JRP once again to help me post the gragh of my previous 346 combination versus the new 383 combination (Test 6) that will be finding it's way into my C5. It's a great comparison and really shows clearly the additional TQ developed everywhere (even with the solid roller's loss of low and midrange TQ compared to the smaller cammed stuff), not to mention the incredible top end charge this 383 street motor seems to possess.

By the way....my air dyno pegs this combination at 525 RWHP / 480 RWTQ although I have decided to install a 410 rear behind this set-up which will probably cut into those numbers a little bit. Should be interesting regardless....

Regards to all,
Tony M.

PS....Jerami, thanks for all your help posting the graghs etc.

Ben R

Generally, no. It takes so much fuel to make so much power.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Sorry we missed you....LOL

A/F ratio (IMHO) will vary slightly based on choice of cylinder heads (mainly chamber design), quench, static CR, and type of header/exhaust system (merge, conventional etc.), but a safe rule of thumb in most injected applications is 13.0 to 1.....some may want leaner, and others may want fatter, but I think most would agree that around 13 will net you the best results (FI applications wanting to be fatter, safer). Regarding timing, again sensitive to the variables I mentioned above, but most of the AFR cars seem to be wanting around 28' or so....more at some points in the curve and less in others if you want to really dial in the combo. Thats the stuff that takes forever on the chassis dyno thats difficult for the average guy to attain unless his buddy is the tuner and his uncle owns the dyno facility....you get my point. The A/F ratio of the 383 just tested was 13.2 across the board and I can't give you timing because we had a slight glitch in the software and the numbers we were seeing weren't accurate but we did have "control" meaning we could add a degree or two or take away, but we didn't have an accurate reference point. I will optimize both timing and fueling on the chassis dyno when the engine is installed in the vehicle which will makes more sense because I will have a different induction and a much different exhaust design. I knew that going in so I wasn't looking to spend a bunch of extra time trying to find the last few (on the engine dyno).

Tony M.

amwellls1

nice work

gollum

iTrader: (1)

Thanks

uberLS-1

Very well done, Very well said....Now can I have it?
LOL, Big props, good work

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

WOW, great data. So going from a hyd cam to a solid cam with the right rockers gained ~30RWHP????
Phil

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

Tony... how much adjusting do you think would have to be done with the solid roller setup?? From what I have seen if you run a solid roller that isnt too too big you can get away with not having to adjust the rocker arms all the time. But once you get up there in size you start having to adjust quite often which isnt very ideal for a street car setup. Are the Solid Roller LS1's any different than your normal solid roller SBC/BBC?? I figure that with a good set of springs, some really nice lifters, and an expensive set of shaft mount rockers one could probably run a mild sized solid roller (24x dur./.650 lift) in a daily driven street car without having to adjust all the time..

What do you think??