ETP vs AFR
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Staging Lane
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From: Rio Rancho,NM USA
ETP vs AFR Anyone actually got any real numbers with these heads, back to back? I know they are both hard to come by still but it sure would be nice to see some actual numbers. 
The ET 215 and 225 heads have a flow advantage over the AFR 205s and initial dyno results of the ET heads look promising. The AFR small bore 225s are much more up to the flow of the ET heads and should compare favorably once they start getting bolted up. Fortunately, AFR has castings in house and should start sending out heads this week.
Advantages of the ET heads:
11 degree design will flow better in mid-lifts because of less valve shrouding.
Available in various chamber sizes and port volumes to satisfy most any racer.
11 degree design will give better piston to valve clearance than stock.
Advantages of the AFR heads:
15 degree design is a stock replacement and class legal.
CARB certified (emissions legal if that matters).
A true bolt-on. No different valve covers, pushrods, and plug wires to buy.
Slightly less expensive.
In a couple of weeks, I plan on doing an A-B comparison of AFR 205 heads vs. AFR small bore 225s on my car. No other changes. Only a head swap. Same dyno, one day apart. Stay tuned. Maybe 500 rwhp with very streetable hydraulic cams will start to become commonplace in 2006. My prediction is YES!
Advantages of the ET heads:
11 degree design will flow better in mid-lifts because of less valve shrouding.
Available in various chamber sizes and port volumes to satisfy most any racer.
11 degree design will give better piston to valve clearance than stock.
Advantages of the AFR heads:
15 degree design is a stock replacement and class legal.
CARB certified (emissions legal if that matters).
A true bolt-on. No different valve covers, pushrods, and plug wires to buy.
Slightly less expensive.
In a couple of weeks, I plan on doing an A-B comparison of AFR 205 heads vs. AFR small bore 225s on my car. No other changes. Only a head swap. Same dyno, one day apart. Stay tuned. Maybe 500 rwhp with very streetable hydraulic cams will start to become commonplace in 2006. My prediction is YES!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
I got me a set of ET 245`s coming to G-Force right now for my 408. Mike and Ben said these heads are the best. I trust them. They have results on other motors that have made me happy. Granted I`m waiting on them alittle. But I feel it`s worth the wait. Great Heads for a awsome price!
Originally Posted by Patrick G
In a couple of weeks, I plan on doing an A-B comparison of AFR 205 heads vs. AFR small bore 225s on my car. No other changes. Only a head swap. Same dyno, one day apart. Stay tuned. Maybe 500 rwhp with very streetable hydraulic cams will start to become commonplace in 2006. My prediction is YES!
i was expecting the ETPs to make more power than the AFRs but im not seeing yet. Their both still making awesome numbers but i think afrs are right with the ETPs. i want to see more back to back test done.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
I do love the ETP heads though and I think they will be shown to out perform AFR's in the more max effort type of engines. AFR are still badass heads, and they have added benefits that others don't. It really boils down to what your goals are for your car to determine which head is right for you.
Nate
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Originally Posted by Beast96Z
i did see that and that is impressive but im going to need to see more than 1 test done.
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Originally Posted by Nate_Taufer
Not buying that for a second. Guy said he used the same sized pushrods and were equal compression...hardly. I think it's just hype.
I do love the ETP heads though and I think they will be shown to out perform AFR's in the more max effort type of engines. AFR are still badass heads, and they have added benefits that others don't. It really boils down to what your goals are for your car to determine which head is right for you.
Nate
I do love the ETP heads though and I think they will be shown to out perform AFR's in the more max effort type of engines. AFR are still badass heads, and they have added benefits that others don't. It really boils down to what your goals are for your car to determine which head is right for you.
Nate
I also like the AFR heads for more conservative apps. Hopefully after ETP starts fillin gthese back orders, well see more back to back results....Hopefully. I'll have mine up soon, but there's currently no head on the market to compare mine to.
Here is my oponion.
I dont see a ton of peak HP being made from either brand.
What your choosing between are 2 fine head choices.
Kinda like picking between a Camaro SS and a WS6 TA.
Either way your making a damn good choice.
I do however believe the ET heads will have a advantage in mid HP numbers.
I also believe they can have a huge advantage when it comes to picking a cam.
They also have the advantage when looking for a higher compression setup.
All in all if your taking a 11.1 compression, 224 cam, typical LS1 setup both the 205 AFR and 215 ETP heads will give awsome results. If your trying to run a 11.5+CR, 234+ duration cam, and not flycut the ETP have a huge advantage.
I am just talking about stock shortblock motor's.
Going to a larger cubed motor is a different ball game. This to me is where ETP really seperates itsself from everyone else.
I dont see a ton of peak HP being made from either brand.
What your choosing between are 2 fine head choices.
Kinda like picking between a Camaro SS and a WS6 TA.
Either way your making a damn good choice.
I do however believe the ET heads will have a advantage in mid HP numbers.
I also believe they can have a huge advantage when it comes to picking a cam.
They also have the advantage when looking for a higher compression setup.
All in all if your taking a 11.1 compression, 224 cam, typical LS1 setup both the 205 AFR and 215 ETP heads will give awsome results. If your trying to run a 11.5+CR, 234+ duration cam, and not flycut the ETP have a huge advantage.
I am just talking about stock shortblock motor's.
Going to a larger cubed motor is a different ball game. This to me is where ETP really seperates itsself from everyone else.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
Was this on the same car? The way that it was written "Both cars will dynoed on the same dyno and tuned with HP tuners to peak performance. Same compression CC on the heads." makes it seem like it was 2 different cars... I would very much like to see a dyno sheet to see how much of an advantade the 11* to 15* angle and 215 to 205 ports will give an engine.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Here is my oponion.
I dont see a ton of peak HP being made from either brand.
What your choosing between are 2 fine head choices.
Kinda like picking between a Camaro SS and a WS6 TA.
Either way your making a damn good choice.
I do however believe the ET heads will have a advantage in mid HP numbers.
I also believe they can have a huge advantage when it comes to picking a cam.
They also have the advantage when looking for a higher compression setup.
All in all if your taking a 11.1 compression, 224 cam, typical LS1 setup both the 205 AFR and 215 ETP heads will give awsome results. If your trying to run a 11.5+CR, 234+ duration cam, and not flycut the ETP have a huge advantage.
I am just talking about stock shortblock motor's.
Going to a larger cubed motor is a different ball game. This to me is where ETP really seperates itsself from everyone else.
I dont see a ton of peak HP being made from either brand.
What your choosing between are 2 fine head choices.
Kinda like picking between a Camaro SS and a WS6 TA.
Either way your making a damn good choice.
I do however believe the ET heads will have a advantage in mid HP numbers.
I also believe they can have a huge advantage when it comes to picking a cam.
They also have the advantage when looking for a higher compression setup.
All in all if your taking a 11.1 compression, 224 cam, typical LS1 setup both the 205 AFR and 215 ETP heads will give awsome results. If your trying to run a 11.5+CR, 234+ duration cam, and not flycut the ETP have a huge advantage.
I am just talking about stock shortblock motor's.
Going to a larger cubed motor is a different ball game. This to me is where ETP really seperates itsself from everyone else.
The AFR stuff seems to be geared more towards the 95% street guy. The heads make good average power and are very driveable.
The ET's are more 'race oriented'. They do offer versions to compete directly with the stock LSX castings and heads like the AFR205/Dart205 in their 215cc head.They also offer the bigger ports with big airflow for the guys running big, aggressive engines.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Here is my oponion.
I dont see a ton of peak HP being made from either brand.
What your choosing between are 2 fine head choices.
Kinda like picking between a Camaro SS and a WS6 TA.
Either way your making a damn good choice.
I do however believe the ET heads will have a advantage in mid HP numbers.
I also believe they can have a huge advantage when it comes to picking a cam.
They also have the advantage when looking for a higher compression setup.
All in all if your taking a 11.1 compression, 224 cam, typical LS1 setup both the 205 AFR and 215 ETP heads will give awsome results. If your trying to run a 11.5+CR, 234+ duration cam, and not flycut the ETP have a huge advantage.
I am just talking about stock shortblock motor's.
Going to a larger cubed motor is a different ball game. This to me is where ETP really seperates itsself from everyone else.
I dont see a ton of peak HP being made from either brand.
What your choosing between are 2 fine head choices.
Kinda like picking between a Camaro SS and a WS6 TA.
Either way your making a damn good choice.
I do however believe the ET heads will have a advantage in mid HP numbers.
I also believe they can have a huge advantage when it comes to picking a cam.
They also have the advantage when looking for a higher compression setup.
All in all if your taking a 11.1 compression, 224 cam, typical LS1 setup both the 205 AFR and 215 ETP heads will give awsome results. If your trying to run a 11.5+CR, 234+ duration cam, and not flycut the ETP have a huge advantage.
I am just talking about stock shortblock motor's.
Going to a larger cubed motor is a different ball game. This to me is where ETP really seperates itsself from everyone else.
That the ET heads allow larger cams without having to flycut the pistons is a BIG deal. I don't like the idea of flycutting my stock pistons. I'd rather just buy a good set of pistons with valve reliefs. Of course what I'd really prefer is the ET heads and leave my pistons alone. Any idea on the largest possible cam that can fit with the 215's?Sorry for bringing up a comatose thread but this one should have lasted a bit longer.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
This is an excellent thread that points out a number of differences between these competing heads. The only things missing are back to back dyno and track results.
Last edited by SSDude; Apr 10, 2006 at 11:20 PM.
Originally Posted by PewterZ28
I really like your way of thinking. That the ET heads allow larger cams without having to flycut the pistons is a BIG deal. I don't like the idea of flycutting my stock pistons. I'd rather just buy a good set of pistons with valve reliefs. Of course what I'd really prefer is the ET heads and leave my pistons alone. Any idea on the largest possible cam that can fit with the 215's?
Sorry for bringing up a comatose thread but this one should have lasted a bit longer.
That the ET heads allow larger cams without having to flycut the pistons is a BIG deal. I don't like the idea of flycutting my stock pistons. I'd rather just buy a good set of pistons with valve reliefs. Of course what I'd really prefer is the ET heads and leave my pistons alone. Any idea on the largest possible cam that can fit with the 215's?Sorry for bringing up a comatose thread but this one should have lasted a bit longer.
If the 215s can much more safely take a cam in the low 230's duration without flycutting (unlike the AFR 205s), I might have to take a look at them.
One huge disadvantage of the ETP's is they will take for ever to get here. I am waiting for a set of 225 small bore's myself.
Originally Posted by Jimmy P
I dont realy care about the velocity the 215's would offer at low rpm's. I only care about WOT
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
LOL, this is what many owners of ET 245s and 255s have told their 408 engine builders. So far, this logic has not shown the rwhp results to match the strong airflow of the heads. Perhaps the ET 245s and 255s on 408 with a FAST 90/90 are just too big. Sometimes going smaller will get you down the track faster.