ChevPower

iTrader: (8)

So why not sell the afr's and get a set of ET they cost more If the statement of YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR holds true then the ET's must be hands down a better head then the AFR's

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Because I built a street car ... not and all-out race car. IMHO opinion, big cube motors like the LS7 love the 245 ET's. ET's are great RACING heads and are expensive ... they are great for street applications, as well, if you have that kind of money to spend.

As I stated, I got what I paid for ... for MY SETUP. Apparently, you jumped to conclusions to instigate my reply to Dart331stroker. Any more brilliant questions?

Dart331Stroker

As far as not being as good, for a non ported head, that is pretty competitive with a cnc ported head, costing only $640.00 each for an assembly, i think they hold their own.

But you have your choice as do others, I have supported both AFR, and ET on here before, and do now. Buy what you wish, no harm to me.

Actually not pissed off in the least, there are more than enough LS engines around to support both Dart, AFR, ET, World, TEA, Patriot, And anybody else who wants to jump into the mix. I made the statement that somewhere else on here posted about the other part, that is why there is another paragraph, I am not going to spend my day quoting people, I get paid to sell parts, I volunteer my time to answer questions on here, for FREE!!

Ah yes flow numbers, some people just dont get it, walk into any professional engine racers shop, Anderson, Gibbs, Johnson, DEI, Childress, Hendricks, they all use wet flow testing equipment people, when in the world will people learn?? Flow benchs and dynos of any sort can lie to you, give you bad information, look on here for the post that has the article from Darrin Morgan from Reher Morrison. You will learn alot about flow benches, and if you have some time to do some serious reading, go to www.rehermorrison.com and read flow bench fallacies, this will blow a hole in anybodys flow bench testing means something theory!!! Another great place to get an education about real world, and how engines make power, go over to speedtalk and read some of the very educational post about flow, dynos, chassis dynos, etc. you will learn alot about how little flow numbers help.

Example, we already have had a guy buy our heads from a head porting shop, that claimed great numbers, the motor is a turd, blames us! First off not our fault, but hey send them back and let us look at them. We flow tested them and they were better on the flow bench than they were when shipped, well we wet flowed the heads, and they were junk, valve job and port work they did ruined them. The fuel wasnt shearing off the seats right, they were turbulant as heck, and the runner shape sucked so bad when fuel went around the short turn and entered the chamber it was washing out the spark plug. So in this case his great flowing $2000.00 set of heads were junk! Worthless, made less power than the motor would have had he bought the heads out of the box! Porting something and getting better flow numbers doesnt mean more power!!

I could spend all day with examples, and proof, but this board like so many others will argue and again I ask myself, why do I try to help people who just want to argue when they have nothing to back up their arguements!!??

John

Malihoochie

Wow. I'm surprised how quick the AFR cheerleaders were to bash someones post. It seems that it was only because it was said more power was made with the Dart head than the previous AFR's. But it would help if Stang90GT50 could post the graphs!

just my 2 cents!

Ksett

What are you talking about? They are all casted the same and CNC ported with the same program. Why would you think otherwise?

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

John, I agree with about everything you said. For what they are, Dart's are good. I just wanted a CNC blueprinter finished head and did not wnat to take the time or money to have a set 'worked up'. Some folks prefer that route ... just not me.

Flow numbers don't mean much when they come from the companies who make them. I think you might agree on that. Independent, non-biased flow numbers are what I made my selection from. I hear you're coming out with a CNC head and I wish you success with it. The market is certainly there.

My apologies if I came off a little harsh. I didn't feel you quoted me correctly. It's all good as far as I'm concerned and I hope you can feel the same.

347fairless

I'm sold!. People must be made of money on this site to buy anything else for $2000+ a pop. If you say I bought AFR because they were better for my combo, I'd say, was it worth the $900 for the minimal extra hp or tq? Fools would say yes.

Way to go Dart for driving down the cost of quality heads for those of us without bottomless pockets! Leaves more money for beer.

92SilverSHO

iTrader: (3)

darts have i think when tested have been a real nice head for the money and very comparative to other cnc heads out. Im just glad there are so many head options out right now! Great time(well besides gas prices) to own an lsx vehicle!

Dart331Stroker

Castings are the same, and unless they change the porting, chamber program, valve job, or plug location different castings made of the same material wont change the power level.

CNC machining is much more accurate, even the best head porters in this industry cant port a runner from one to the next exactly the same over and over. Machines will replicate the port work over and over. And rough finish runners will make more power as well, this you dont see on a flow bench..

So to defend AFR here, it doesnt have anything to do with the castings.

The biggest problem is the testing, comparing chassis dynos, all which have some variances, all of the machines can be manipulated by the operators. Shoddy operators might hurry and not take the time to do things right, and the car shows bad results, and one who takes his time, calibrates the machine, tunes the car etc, will show better numbers. Thats why I said back to back comparisons on the same machine with the same operator with the same calibration will show true real world comparison. But when it is all said and done, how does the thing run down the track!! Thats what we want to know!!!

John

Ksett

This post stinks a little for my taste. Your friend was happy with the combo you quoted with the horrendous HP and TQ numbers? How could he have been happy with that combo making 30 rwhp shy of what it should have made. Also, no dyno sheets, no previous post of his crappy numbers on the forum, no proof, just a story by a guy that's been a member since last month.

stang90gt50

iTrader: (6)

The car is an automatic with 3.42 gears in it. not a M6 car. unlocked converter.


Also, I really didnt realize trying to share some results with the ls1 crowd would result in everyone talking crap. I wish I wouldn't have shared anything and wont ever in the future again. I dunno I like the results. this dynojet doesnt put up any killer #'s compared to the #'s I always see posted around here and through a automatic I thought that was a ton of power for a heads/cam on 91 octane only getting 26 degrees of timing (due to crappy ol california gas). Oh well, I will keep to myself and just read...

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

Cali huh, where in Cali, who did the work, who's dyno, who's the tuner????????????????????????????????????????

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Dude, you are quickly losing credibility. Right here you say it's an automatic, but in post number one you say:Either put up some dyno sheet, have your friend post up, or you're going to quickly look like a troll and this thread will be removed. Time to come clean.

GTO1_OHIO

iTrader: (3)

Interestingly my A4 with a smaller cam got about the same numbers....actually a little better 431/391.9 numbers. For a M6 I agree those numbers are too low...the AFRs aren't the reason.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

M6 ... no it's an A4 ... no, it's an M6 ... uh, maybe it's an M6 ... uh, no, uh maybe it's a ... what the hell did you say it was!?

offaxis

iTrader: (19)

Damn there sure are some really nice dynos out here from the a4 guys latley. I might have to step up my game soon .

stang90gt50

iTrader: (6)

Whelp, go ahead and delete this post. This is exact reason most of the people around here doesnt affiliate themselves with this site.

last post...cya.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

C'mon dude, don't make **** up and you won't get called on it. First it was through a 6 spd, then it was through an unlocked auto? At least get your story straight.

stang90gt50

iTrader: (6)

Sorry guys...im sorry you guys are ready to pick apart every discrepency you can find.

It wasnt my car, just a buddy of mines and I was trying to share some nice results with you guys.


Apparently all the AFR lovers think that if you can find a flaw in anyones story because they mistyped sometihng then its automatically BS. Ok then I ordered a set of Dart 225's today because I love the results....$1275 buys me a set of badass heads that put down great 1/4 mile times without breaking the bank....end of discussion

CKZ

iTrader: (1)

Why do you continue to dig yourself into a hole?

According to a post you made on 3/22 you already had your Dart 225 heads.

I didn't post in this thread to be an "AFR lover." I couldn't care less about Joe Shomoe's view of a performance product.

Your post, slanted message, and lack of grammar reeks of typical troll crap. I called you on it and so did several other individuals. End of discussion.