TEA 215cc Trick Flow Dyno numbers and graph
Originally Posted by stang90gt50
I wish Tony would learn to stay out of posts when he is "unwanted"...
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: DFW, TX
Originally Posted by Patrick G
There you go stirring the pot again...absolutely no tech. It's obvious you are an AFR hater. Last warning. Post up tech or prepare for a long vacation. Tony had every right to post in this thread because he was called out. Keep it technical or say goodbye.
I'm out of town and I don't have my cam program with me. I'll look into it as soon as I get back home. Thanks for your patience. 
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
Oh yea.....you betcha......If you have been waiting, then your wait is over
Bruce
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Guys, you can make LOTs more area under the curve with the same heads/intake without having to resort to a cam that is hard on parts. It's all about correct valve events. Your current cam has too late of an intake valve closing point and too low of dynamic compression. You could still run the soft XE lobes and pick up 20-30lb ft of mid-range torque with a better chosen cam. As it stands right now, your setup is very biased toward the top-end. The great news is, you can keep your strong top-end while picking up big numbers in the 3000-5000 range. If interested, send me a PM.
This is also a Florida car, and I'm wondering at what point does high compression and DCR start to cause problems with KR on a car with A/C idling, in 95+ degree heat. Either way these are fine numbers from a known conservative dyno. 
Bruce
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Originally Posted by Hardtop
I'm not doubting what you are saying Pat, but consider this. Some cars that run on street tires are traction limited, and huge torque down low can make the car hard to hook, and be harder on drivetrain parts. Sometimes its better to get the car hooked before the power comes in hard. This is also a Florida car, and I'm wondering at what point does high compression and DCR start to cause problems with KR on a car with A/C idling, in 95+ degree heat. Either way these are fine numbers from a known conservative dyno.
Bruce
This is also a Florida car, and I'm wondering at what point does high compression and DCR start to cause problems with KR on a car with A/C idling, in 95+ degree heat. Either way these are fine numbers from a known conservative dyno. Bruce
And as far as heat goes, I don't think Florida is any hotter than Texas and these high DCR setups run just fine on super unleaded when they're set up properly.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Bruce, I can appreciate what you're saying, but why in the world would you want to leave that much power and torque on the table? Sure 20-30 additional lb ft of torque may pose traction problems in 1st gear, but what about gears 2-6? With so many people racing from a roll these days, any advantage you can get in the mid-range is worth getting, especially when it does not come with any loss of top-end power. Again, you will gain power down low and possibly make even more up high. Higher DCR and better positioning of overlap are the keys.
And as far as heat goes, I don't think Florida is any hotter than Texas and these high DCR setups run just fine on super unleaded when they're set up properly.
And as far as heat goes, I don't think Florida is any hotter than Texas and these high DCR setups run just fine on super unleaded when they're set up properly.
You have probably seen me post on some of these software programs before, when I got started about 15 years ago I bought every software program you could buy. By 1993 I was hired into Holley and I was doing the SysteMax engine package development, we were using Flowpro software on the flowbench, Campro software on the cam measurement system, and both of those programs would download data directly into Dynomation. We would then engine dyno the stuff to see how it panned out, you could pretty much throw the software predictions in the trash can.
Don't get me wrong, I use software everyday, the CAD/CAM software I use to recreate our original ports has obviously help make me what I am today, but don't let a piece of software override real research, it just doesn't work that way.
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I will try to run one of your cams across the dyno if you want to spec one out. I just got another cam last week from a guy who said he could lay some smack down, so we will see. The thing you do not want to forget is, a head that flows more air everywhere, makes more power, but also makes more cylinder pressure then a lower flowing head and will get into detonation sooner.
You have probably seen me post on some of these software programs before, when I got started about 15 years ago I bought every software program you could buy. By 1993 I was hired into Holley and I was doing the SysteMax engine package development, we were using Flowpro software on the flowbench, Campro software on the cam measurement system, and both of those programs would download data directly into Dynomation. We would then engine dyno the stuff to see how it panned out, you could pretty much throw the software predictions in the trash can.
Don't get me wrong, I use software everyday, the CAD/CAM software I use to recreate our original ports has obviously help make me what I am today, but don't let a piece of software override real research, it just doesn't work that way.
You have probably seen me post on some of these software programs before, when I got started about 15 years ago I bought every software program you could buy. By 1993 I was hired into Holley and I was doing the SysteMax engine package development, we were using Flowpro software on the flowbench, Campro software on the cam measurement system, and both of those programs would download data directly into Dynomation. We would then engine dyno the stuff to see how it panned out, you could pretty much throw the software predictions in the trash can.
Don't get me wrong, I use software everyday, the CAD/CAM software I use to recreate our original ports has obviously help make me what I am today, but don't let a piece of software override real research, it just doesn't work that way.
Cam 1: 233/235 .649/.598 112LSA +2
Cam 2: 234/238 .598/.605 114LSA +2
Cam 3: 224/228 .636/.639 110LSA +0
Both vendors said that cam 2 would make the most peak power and the most average power (from 3500-7000rpm). Wrongo!
Cam 2 was a pooch! It had the lowest rwhp, lowest peak torque and the lowest average torque. So much for dyno software. No, I use my program to predict DCR and get me the valve events I need and position overlap to the side of TDC that I need. Experience has taught me where those valve events work best with these motors. As long as people are willing to degree the cams in, you can get it right 99% of the time.
The cam specs depend on how aggressive the enthusiast wants to get with ramp rates and spring rates. An XE lobe can be very effective, but I still prefer the XE-R, XFI, and LSK lobes. I need to check out the Hellion lobes that Ed Curtis likes so well. Those are making nice power too. But regardless of the ramp speed, proper valve opening and closing points reign supreme.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by stang90gt50
I wish Tony would learn to stay out of posts when he is "unwanted"...
Maybe you haven't noticed but nobody cares to have your worthless posts made in any thread's anymore.
How can you talk **** to Tony about coming in here and not provide any tech advice of your own? So you tell him to get out when all your doing is trooling yourself. You are worthless and haven't proven anything to anyone of us except that your useless, and have no credit on this site.
Back on topic. Nice results.
I feel there could be some improvements with a cam swap as well. Maybe not peak power, and maybe not even above 6000 RPM's, but some power/torque could be gained in the lower RPM range.
Also I must agree with Pat on the extra torque....
Either way you will spin the tires. If you can control your car and your foot enough you should stop spinning at about the same time. Now you have all this extra power in 2nd 3rd and 4th gear to help win the race.
Also going from a roll should be a big improvement as well. Better throttle responce and more torque can help win a race from a roll.
Update, just got back from NLP, the car is running so rich my front 02's fouled out over the weekend and the car won't idle when it trips the SES and code p1133 & 1153. I am hoping when the tune is completely sorted it will make a few new ponies. In the meatime the car will be down until Mike Norris gets back from vacation. Might have some better numbers soon. I am actually happy with the cam for now, doesn't feel like its beating the rear end to hell.
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I will try to run one of your cams across the dyno if you want to spec one out.
Comp 2128/3730 HR 110LSA +2
This is an LSK/XE-R combo that will Cam Doctor around 233/240 .646/.609 110LSA 108ICL
With a 61cc chamber and .040" gasket, your DCR will be around 8.6:1. If you wanted to back that down, you could either go with the stock gasket or grind the cam at 109ICL (+1). This is a very well-rounded cam that will make power everywhere without being too big. I like the fast off-the-seat ramp of the XE-R lobe for exhaust, but I prefer the more generous curtain area of the LSK lobe for the intake.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Firehawk441
I sent Patrick G a PM three weeks ago with no response.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Guys, you can make LOTs more area under the curve with the same heads/intake without having to resort to a cam that is hard on parts. It's all about correct valve events. Your current cam has too late of an intake valve closing point and too low of dynamic compression. You could still run the soft XE lobes and pick up 20-30lb ft of mid-range torque with a better chosen cam. As it stands right now, your setup is very biased toward the top-end. The great news is, you can keep your strong top-end while picking up big numbers in the 3000-5000 range. If interested, send me a PM.