402 with an A4, Can We Talk?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by 11SECDWS6
How many of y'all had your converters locked when you dynoed? That can make a big difference.
Also, the exhaust can have alot to do with unlocking these big cube motors (I know, unrelated to the topic of A4 but just pointing out). I'm wondering if the common 3" catback is choking these big cube motors down...
Thats why I'm getting a dual cutout ypipe fabbed up soon...
Also, the exhaust can have alot to do with unlocking these big cube motors (I know, unrelated to the topic of A4 but just pointing out). I'm wondering if the common 3" catback is choking these big cube motors down...
Thats why I'm getting a dual cutout ypipe fabbed up soon...
Here's mine:
TSP 402
TEA AFR stage 3 heads
Comp 596/596 244/244 114
RPM A4
Yank SS3600
Stock rear w/ 3.23s
Ported Stock Throttle body
LS6 intake
1 3/4 Pacesetter Longtubes
Intial numbers with a safe tune and less than 300 miles on the motor:
450 rwhp/ 460 rwtq
I pick the car up tonight and have to bring it back a couple weeks for the final tune. It should pick-up another 20rwhp with the final tune. I was kinda disappointed, but I guess after looking at everyone else's numbers it's in-line considering I'm running a LS6 intake, stock throttle body, and 1 3/4 headers.
TSP 402
TEA AFR stage 3 heads
Comp 596/596 244/244 114
RPM A4
Yank SS3600
Stock rear w/ 3.23s
Ported Stock Throttle body
LS6 intake
1 3/4 Pacesetter Longtubes
Intial numbers with a safe tune and less than 300 miles on the motor:
450 rwhp/ 460 rwtq
I pick the car up tonight and have to bring it back a couple weeks for the final tune. It should pick-up another 20rwhp with the final tune. I was kinda disappointed, but I guess after looking at everyone else's numbers it's in-line considering I'm running a LS6 intake, stock throttle body, and 1 3/4 headers.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109
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I think I am losing as much as 20% through the drive train. This makes quite a bit of difference compared to an M6 car. I have seen that many believe the F-Body has a different loss value than the Vette but I have no idea why. Maybe it's the CV joints the Vette's use?
As far as the Dyno runs go I always have my converter locked during a pull.
As far as the Dyno runs go I always have my converter locked during a pull.
I just redynoed my car yesturday after gutting my cats and having my fast 90 ported. I previously dynoed 471 rwhp 440 rwtq. I was guessing I was going to gain about 15 peak rwhp and ended up gaining zero, but did end up gaining 15 rwtq at about 4500 rpm. Now I know my cam is hurting my numbers because it is not made for a bigger cube motor but I am also curious how much the afr 205's are hurting my setup because I should of gained something up top also.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109
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Originally Posted by gman
I just redynoed my car yesturday after gutting my cats and having my fast 90 ported. I previously dynoed 471 rwhp 440 rwtq. I was guessing I was going to gain about 15 peak rwhp and ended up gaining zero, but did end up gaining 15 rwtq at about 4500 rpm. Now I know my cam is hurting my numbers because it is not made for a bigger cube motor but I am also curious how much the afr 205's are hurting my setup because I should of gained something up top also.
As for the heads I have talked to Tony a couple of times about this. He is convinced that the 225 heads will yield about 15 more peak RWHP at the cost of power below the curve. In short he thinks the 205's are more drivable on the street but that the 225's make more HP. He has done enough real world dyno testing to prove this. He did suggest that I send him my 205 heads and let him do some work to unshroud the valves and maybe even install valves that are larger.
I had a set of 205 heads when I began my 402 build up and thought about getting a set of 225’s. I just didn't feel like the extra money was worth it. This seems to be how most guys end up with 205 heads on a 402.
Also, like you, I would like to run a larger cam. But I am afraid of creating a monster that's miserable to drive.
I also swapped my heads and cam from my 346 to the 402. Like you stated I couldn't see the extra expense of swapping out the 205's for a bigger set of heads especially when they only had a few 1000 miles on them.
Both of us basically have the same shortblock with -14cc dished pistons right around 11 to 1 compression. Now by sending your heads out to get reworked and to unshroud the valves wouldn't you also lose some compression. I really don't want to slip to far under that mark.
As for my cam it really isn't made for a bigger cube motor and in the old 346 cam only it only made 373 rwhp and 335 rwtq. It never really made good torque but then again I haven't seen too many tsp cams that have. I don't exactly want a huge cam but one specifically made for my application.
Both of us basically have the same shortblock with -14cc dished pistons right around 11 to 1 compression. Now by sending your heads out to get reworked and to unshroud the valves wouldn't you also lose some compression. I really don't want to slip to far under that mark.
As for my cam it really isn't made for a bigger cube motor and in the old 346 cam only it only made 373 rwhp and 335 rwtq. It never really made good torque but then again I haven't seen too many tsp cams that have. I don't exactly want a huge cam but one specifically made for my application.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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Tony told me it would open up the chambers about 6cc so I figured I would just mill them down a little more to make up the difference. In fact I would probably go 11-to-1 on the compression.
I wish I knew which cam would be best. If we could just get someone to do some dyno work on a 402 with different cams it would be a big help.
(Hint, hint Tony)
I wish I knew which cam would be best. If we could just get someone to do some dyno work on a 402 with different cams it would be a big help.
(Hint, hint Tony)
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Verdad Gallardo Thats the problem my heads are already milled .030. I believe you can only go to about .040 (59 cc) before you start having problems with your intake fitting properly. I would only beable to make up 2cc of the 6 he used to open up the chambers and that would definately drop me under a 11 to 1.
Here's mine:
408ci
10.7-1 CR
Patriot Stage III LS6 heads
Comp 244/248 .613/.615 113lsa
LS6 Intake
Stock home ported TB
Pacesetter Lt's
Ory
cutout
Rossler terminator 3 4l60e
TCI 3500
10 bolt, 3.73's
Dyno'd with around 250mi. on motor and good dyno tune. Keep getting alot of vaccum up high but managed 440hp/444ft lbs. And on the spray I keep having a problem with it going straight through the converter to the rev limiter so we had to easy on the TNT up high. Didnt have a bottle warmer so it was really hit or miss. Pulled I beleive it was 626hp/657ft lbs on a 200 shot.
Ive since swapped over to the FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm tb. Im swapping heads and going with a higher CR, and installing a 4l80e as we speak so Ill re dyno after I get everything complete.
408ci
10.7-1 CR
Patriot Stage III LS6 heads
Comp 244/248 .613/.615 113lsa
LS6 Intake
Stock home ported TB
Pacesetter Lt's
Ory
cutout
Rossler terminator 3 4l60e
TCI 3500
10 bolt, 3.73's
Dyno'd with around 250mi. on motor and good dyno tune. Keep getting alot of vaccum up high but managed 440hp/444ft lbs. And on the spray I keep having a problem with it going straight through the converter to the rev limiter so we had to easy on the TNT up high. Didnt have a bottle warmer so it was really hit or miss. Pulled I beleive it was 626hp/657ft lbs on a 200 shot.
Ive since swapped over to the FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm tb. Im swapping heads and going with a higher CR, and installing a 4l80e as we speak so Ill re dyno after I get everything complete.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109
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Originally Posted by Z'mnypit
Here's mine:
408ci
10.7-1 CR
Patriot Stage III LS6 heads
Comp 244/248 .613/.615 113lsa
LS6 Intake
Stock home ported TB
Pacesetter Lt's
Ory
cutout
Rossler terminator 3 4l60e
TCI 3500
10 bolt, 3.73's
Dyno'd with around 250mi. on motor and good dyno tune. Keep getting alot of vaccum up high but managed 440hp/444ft lbs. And on the spray I keep having a problem with it going straight through the converter to the rev limiter so we had to easy on the TNT up high. Didnt have a bottle warmer so it was really hit or miss. Pulled I beleive it was 626hp/657ft lbs on a 200 shot.
Ive since swapped over to the FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm tb. Im swapping heads and going with a higher CR, and installing a 4l80e as we speak so Ill re dyno after I get everything complete.
408ci
10.7-1 CR
Patriot Stage III LS6 heads
Comp 244/248 .613/.615 113lsa
LS6 Intake
Stock home ported TB
Pacesetter Lt's
Ory
cutout
Rossler terminator 3 4l60e
TCI 3500
10 bolt, 3.73's
Dyno'd with around 250mi. on motor and good dyno tune. Keep getting alot of vaccum up high but managed 440hp/444ft lbs. And on the spray I keep having a problem with it going straight through the converter to the rev limiter so we had to easy on the TNT up high. Didnt have a bottle warmer so it was really hit or miss. Pulled I beleive it was 626hp/657ft lbs on a 200 shot.
Ive since swapped over to the FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm tb. Im swapping heads and going with a higher CR, and installing a 4l80e as we speak so Ill re dyno after I get everything complete.
Does any body have track numbers my best so far on all motor is a 10.96 @ 124.50 on a 150 shot the best so far is a 10.36 @ 133.75 have dynoed already for 200 shot puts me @ 620 to the wheels hopefully can get a 9.90. had to go to 28x11.50x16 hoosier quick time pros to hook up.
"All Motor 9 Second club member"
iTrader: (60)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,235
Likes: 2
From: On the Bumper!
10.28@129mph with a 1.36 60ft on motor.
FWIW- That's a hard comparison so don't beat yourself up. Location is critical. I'm at sea level here in Texas. The DA was +1900 to +2000. I couldn't run anywhere near that in Colorado or NM.
Great track + low DA= Low ETs
Good luck!
FWIW- That's a hard comparison so don't beat yourself up. Location is critical. I'm at sea level here in Texas. The DA was +1900 to +2000. I couldn't run anywhere near that in Colorado or NM.
Great track + low DA= Low ETs
Good luck!
Originally Posted by TXCAMSS
10.28@129mph with a 1.36 60ft on motor.
FWIW- That's a hard comparison so don't beat yourself up. Location is critical. I'm at sea level here in Texas. The DA was +1900 to +2000. I couldn't run anywhere near that in Colorado or NM.
Great track + low DA= Low ETs
Good luck!
FWIW- That's a hard comparison so don't beat yourself up. Location is critical. I'm at sea level here in Texas. The DA was +1900 to +2000. I couldn't run anywhere near that in Colorado or NM.
Great track + low DA= Low ETs
Good luck!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by biggdogg
Does any body have track numbers my best so far on all motor is a 10.96 @ 124.50 on a 150 shot the best so far is a 10.36 @ 133.75 have dynoed already for 200 shot puts me @ 620 to the wheels hopefully can get a 9.90. had to go to 28x11.50x16 hoosier quick time pros to hook up.
Just this past weekend after adding about 70 lbs of roll bar and a DA of 2800 I ran 7.21@97.98, 7.23@95.91 and 7.29@97.74 as the day wore on. My sixtys were 1.60 to 1.65
I am running a 2004 Corvette Coupe with a CCW Drag pack. Skinnies up front and MT ET Streets at 16x11.5x26 (11 lbs of pressure when hot) There were no scales at the track but probably about 3500 lbs with me in it. The details of my setup can be seen in the first post within this thread.
I WENT TO 28 X 11.5 X 16 HOOSIER QUICK TIME PROS have 3.73 it picked up 3 mph in the 1/4 mile.so it helped get me get into the 10s.if do want to try them i had to remove inter fender liners so they wont rub.i also run the ccw drag pack.
"All Motor 9 Second club member"
iTrader: (60)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,235
Likes: 2
From: On the Bumper!
26* here at idle and 27-28 at wot. I raised the timing tables belo my idle set point
(200-800rpm) to 32*-34*-36* and it made idle very stable. It helps the recovery if it ever tries to dip down below the targeted idle rpm. It's almost like stock now, but that's after getting the VE table and fueling spot on. That's alos with a 248-252 112LSA.
I hope that helps!
(200-800rpm) to 32*-34*-36* and it made idle very stable. It helps the recovery if it ever tries to dip down below the targeted idle rpm. It's almost like stock now, but that's after getting the VE table and fueling spot on. That's alos with a 248-252 112LSA.
I hope that helps!
Tried to get mine tuned this weekend in KC and it went poorly. I looked at my tune and it says 17* at idle.
What rpm does your car idle at?
Do you mind sending me a copy of your spark table? Let me see if I can find mine.
I see you stuck your maf back on. Maybe I need to do this as well.....
What rpm does your car idle at?
Do you mind sending me a copy of your spark table? Let me see if I can find mine.
I see you stuck your maf back on. Maybe I need to do this as well.....
Last edited by mattsls1; Oct 4, 2006 at 12:46 PM.