98SS2836

iTrader: (6)

AFR's Peaked 300 rpm below the rest. AFR's Don't need a big intake runner because they have far superior port velocity I want AFR to make a 230 Race head not a street head which is what was dyno'ed So they can shut people up.

alsfastz28

darts out of box no cnc no port work $1400 not $ 2000 or above stayed close all over for less money just my 2 sence

98SS2836

iTrader: (6)

There 63cc combustion chamber and 225cc intake runner that was tested on the Darts and the price on them said 1630.50

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Well it's not much of a "stage" considering if you wanted a set they would run you over $5K lol. I know you would see a difference on the dyno and track with those over any other companies 243 CNC or hand ported castings. Maybe unless it's something like a Meaux port job.

Bret

C_Williams

So how's that been quantified and by who, exactly - because there are many attributes and variables that will positively or negatively affect velocity.

I'd like to see real measurements of superior flow and then see that data turned into superior performance. So far, it isn't so.

Charlie

alsfastz28

hey 98ss2836 paid 1300 in dec from jegs not 1630 thats the new price and the price on the outher heads 2479.99 2399.99 1899.99 2399.99 still 270.00 to 840.00 cheaper max horse power differance 20 I find my savings in the dart

Houston999

iTrader: (3)

where is Gunnar?

ExceSSive

iTrader: (13)

1. I like the AFR's and they came straight out of the box. Expensive...yes. According to the chart they have above the graph they did 551hp@6600 as well as 547@6400 as stated in the side bar. They said they did a lean and rich run but said the power #'s did not change much so they tossed both of those results. Funny thing...all the heads outperformed the AFR's @3000RPM.

2. The livernois heads were the stock heads that they put a stage 3 P/P VJ

3. The TFS were stated to be the most finished of the bunch in the article

4. The Edelbrock's seem a bit disappointing to me for the reputation that the company has...but I bet it is a quality head for sure though.

I currently have the Patriots but after reading this article I am seriously considering some AFR's. IMO their reputation and the repeatability of their results is worth the extra cash. Now I just have to decide if I should put in the G5X1 cam or keep my TR 224 which works so well with a daily driver.

ExceSSive

iTrader: (13)

I don't think they were sending a ringer as much as a new product that was not yet in production and thus did not have some just laying around to send. I think this head was still in R&D and I think you will be able to get a head just like it one day soon...I think a friend of mine is getting some. If he reads in this section maybe he will post up when they get here and what they do on his dyno.

slimcracka

iTrader: (7)

do it son. but i would get the mamo cam (224 228) that tony says works with the right combo..get a cam that matches the head..

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Guys...

Don't forget the AFR's had the distinct disadvantage of having the lowest CR of the bunch....it's all about cylinder pressure and more of it would have fattened the TQ and power curve at every RPM point, not to mention improved the BSFC #'s some of you made mention of earlier (this might have been one of the pulls with more fuel which made similar power to the pulls with less directly effecting those figures as well).

Also, I mentioned earlier in this thread that an engine dyno is not the best tool to show the benefits of smaller high speed port designs, lighter rotating components, etc., etc., but both of which legitamately help a road race car come off a corner harder (showing they are genuinely beneficial to power/TQ output). Neither of these scenario's will show you their stuff on an engine dyno unless you test the engine at a more representative sweep in acceleration (much faster than the typical 300 RPM per second). An inertia style chassis dyno is a different story....much like your car it will accelerate at the rate the engine at WOT will allow it to....its not a fixed rate of acceleration determined by an engine dyno's water brake. To a point it's the same argument with big carbs, what works the best on an engine dyno wont necessarily perform the best in your actual vehicle.

A small runner head that will make the same or better numbers than a larger runner head will always be more "alive" and have more snap in the throttle driving around town, not to mention be more fuel efficient doing so. It simply makes for a better dual purpose vehicle which most of you guys reading this are probably running. Are these perks as well as the one most overlooked IMO which is their ability to consistantly deliver the goods worth the extra coin....to some yes, to other's maybe, but I have been on this board now for approaching three years and there are very few, if any, un-satisfied AFR customers. Hard to argue that....

As I also said earlier, you guys simply have more good choices to make pertaining to cylinder heads, and while this testing could have been done slightly differently (trying to equalize CR, perhaps on an inertia dyno, etc., etc.), it was clearly alot of work and very time consuming and also shows that the differences between the better heads on the market has certainly narrowed quite a bit. Considering that, other just as important factors (besides sheer peak power figures) need to be pondered....there is a cylinder head out there for everyone....the tough decision is figuring out which heads are best for YOU.

Good luck with that....LOL

Feel free to call or PM me in the event you are considering our product and have some questions....

Regards,
Tony M.

dmiz0420

iTrader: (8)

The article says Dart 225's w/ 2.02 intake

Not that I find it desireable, but I havn't seen this combination offered any where.

Is there a posibility they got some info wrong?

Blown04Z06

i have already said something like this and glad others see what i do as well...+1

the Darts just prove that flow numbers arent everything. also bare casting darts are $460 each. just as an example patriot gold springs which is what i have for $255 and a set of valves at $12 each $192 = $1367

Add a valve job and some light hand finishing on the Darts and they will improve greatly. Mine did 314@.600 on a stingy flow bench.

my darts still have gobs of material left for bigger valves, more intake and exhaust port work in the future. as of right now the heads combined with the ported fast 90/90 is an efficient combo, price and power. the only way more port work to the darts would be beneficial is if i were to go to a carb style intake manifold to provide more flow to them.

mike c.

iTrader: (1)

i have the AFR 205cc w/matching parts i got 463hp 414tq through a 12 bolt & gears on a mustang dyno. on a dynojet w/a 10bolt i would of been close to 500hp or just over. i have a 10.2 3,700lbs car on a 150 shot. we can ALL do this all day saying this head was only a 205cc vs this 215 or 225cc and this head had more CR,and this one was had finished bla,bla bla. not everyone can afford a TFS/AFR head and some choose not to pay that price. those people have some great products that we can all see perform well to choose from. great thread and info.

Blown04Z06

good points mike. my personal goal on my build was cost efficiency, cheapest way to achieve the most that i could with the best parts i could find. i almost went with a set of TFS until i had an unreal deal laid out in front of me on the Dart's, used for 1200 miles, 1k for the pair.

mike c.

iTrader: (1)

if i had that deal i would of bought darts too.

Louie83

iTrader: (3)

Damn, what cam and bolt-ons are you running?

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, believe me a Dart with a high quality valve job and some minor work around the guides and they will easily make up that 2.3TQ and 3.5HP average difference to the AFR's and probably beat the TFS heads. It's easy to find 20cfm in those castings.

Now if they had a all out port in them that was say 220cc it would be killer compared to about anything out there.

Bret

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

looking at the Dart flow nos.,you would think they wouldn't come close to the others in power.just proves my point there's a whole lot more to a good set of heads than flow nos.

ExceSSive

iTrader: (13)

The issue I have with some of the other heads is...the results you get will be affected by the porter.

The AFR's are out of the box CNC finished at the factory and have great #'s time and again, and a hand finishing on them could probably have as good or better results than the competition. All the heads had something to offer and are very close.