I got bored and made many changes, results inside
To me, this should be in the 1/4 mile section and not the dyno section.
TFS combo dynoed with a locked converter: 438/396
AFR combo dynoed with an un-locked converter: 405/374.
Too many things changed to give any one component credit for all the gains.
Bottom line though, he picked up at the track. Let's look at the no-brainers for gaining power and lowering ET:
T350 with transbrake:
.25 point of added compression
Ported FAST
10-15 degrees better weather
From my keyboard, it looks like the above changes would have been worth around 3 tenths in ET reduction and 3-4 mph gain in the 1/8 mile. Any gains above this might be attributed to the heads. Either way, he gained big at the track and that's what matters.
TFS combo dynoed with a locked converter: 438/396
AFR combo dynoed with an un-locked converter: 405/374.
Too many things changed to give any one component credit for all the gains.
Bottom line though, he picked up at the track. Let's look at the no-brainers for gaining power and lowering ET:
T350 with transbrake:
.25 point of added compression
Ported FAST
10-15 degrees better weather
From my keyboard, it looks like the above changes would have been worth around 3 tenths in ET reduction and 3-4 mph gain in the 1/8 mile. Any gains above this might be attributed to the heads. Either way, he gained big at the track and that's what matters.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by stripes1987
i swapped heads because i had one of the first sets that came out and which they had the problem with running stock rockers caust it was eating up the tips of the valves, I didnt feel like waiting as long for the new ones to be shipped to me so i decided to overall go a different route.
I don't think the first set of heads had any problems...
It seems to be the definition of the TFS heads to work with aftermarket roller rockers...still and always required today.
TFS designers, correct me if I misunderstood please.
Christian
Last edited by miami993c297; Mar 5, 2007 at 07:53 AM.
Man, heaven forbid someone doesnt think the TFS are the best thing since sliced bread.
The 4l60 should be more efficent than the TH350 so that maybe why it dynoed less with the 350.
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power.
Congrads on the new number Stripes1987!
The 4l60 should be more efficent than the TH350 so that maybe why it dynoed less with the 350.
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power.
Congrads on the new number Stripes1987!
Originally Posted by ATVracr
Man, heaven forbid someone doesnt think the TFS are the best thing since sliced bread.
The 4l60 should be more efficent than the TH350 so that maybe why it dynoed less with the 350.
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power.
Congrads on the new number Stripes1987!
The 4l60 should be more efficent than the TH350 so that maybe why it dynoed less with the 350.
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power.
Congrads on the new number Stripes1987!
I am happy that he picked up. The car is running great IMO.
But to say that a bump in compression, much better weather, a much better converter, lighter wheels and tires, a T brake, ported FAST is not the major factor in improved performance here would be unfounded IMO.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
Last edited by 383LQ4SS; Mar 5, 2007 at 12:20 PM.
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
It has nothing to do with being a TFS nutswinger. I am on record as saying both AFR and TFS heads are EXCELLENT. As a matter of fact my first post was to diffuse any potential mudslinging and point out that this scenario in no way shape or form is a good comparison between two sets of heads that were swapped. So discussion on that particular point is 100% pointless as far as this thread is concerned. To state anything otherwise is rediculous.
I am happy that he picked up. The car is running great IMO.
But to say that a bump in compression, much better weather, a much better converter, lighter wheels and tires, a T brake, ported FAST is not the major factor in improved performance here would be unfounded IMO.
I couldnt disagree with this more taking into consideration the tighter better converter and use of a T brake and the other many many factors.
He picked up .05 with a tighter converter. Thats gonna pay of with more MPH generally.
I am happy that he picked up. The car is running great IMO.
But to say that a bump in compression, much better weather, a much better converter, lighter wheels and tires, a T brake, ported FAST is not the major factor in improved performance here would be unfounded IMO.
I couldnt disagree with this more taking into consideration the tighter better converter and use of a T brake and the other many many factors.
He picked up .05 with a tighter converter. Thats gonna pay of with more MPH generally.
I'm not a TFS hater it looks like they are a great head.
Much better weather? He said like 10* cooler
Going from 11.0 to 11.2 isnt much of a change.
Ported fast = 10 hp
Tbrake does not increase MPH
You disagree with a 4l60 being more efficent than a TH350?
200 rpm difference in converter rpm is a very slight change also.
Looks to me the AFR's were better suited for his set up.
Bash me all you want but this is the worst thread title ever. There is no comparision here between heads at all. Who cares if you swaped heads that is pointless to even say. It has nothing to do with heads you changed damn near your whole combo. The only thing you didn't change is your gear and your cam. Other then that everything was changed. Very stupid thread title. Maybe a more accurate title like new dyno numbers and new ET's with new combo would have been more accurate.
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Man...seems like there are a few very hotly contested topics on this board. AFR vs. TFS and EFILive vs. HPTuners...getting a bit old.
Definitely too many variables to chalk anything up to the head swap...it should have been left at that after the very first post.
Definitely too many variables to chalk anything up to the head swap...it should have been left at that after the very first post.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
To me, this should be in the 1/4 mile section and not the dyno section.
TFS combo dynoed with a locked converter: 438/396
AFR combo dynoed with an un-locked converter: 405/374.
Too many things changed to give any one component credit for all the gains.
Bottom line though, he picked up at the track. Let's look at the no-brainers for gaining power and lowering ET:
T350 with transbrake:
.25 point of added compression
Ported FAST
10-15 degrees better weather
From my keyboard, it looks like the above changes would have been worth around 3 tenths in ET reduction and 3-4 mph gain in the 1/8 mile. Any gains above this might be attributed to the heads. Either way, he gained big at the track and that's what matters.
TFS combo dynoed with a locked converter: 438/396
AFR combo dynoed with an un-locked converter: 405/374.
Too many things changed to give any one component credit for all the gains.
Bottom line though, he picked up at the track. Let's look at the no-brainers for gaining power and lowering ET:
T350 with transbrake:
.25 point of added compression
Ported FAST
10-15 degrees better weather
From my keyboard, it looks like the above changes would have been worth around 3 tenths in ET reduction and 3-4 mph gain in the 1/8 mile. Any gains above this might be attributed to the heads. Either way, he gained big at the track and that's what matters.
Pat we both know that last sentence is no good. Your keyboard can't tell any of the story here. No DA was posted, track prep could have been very different. The MPH increase could be a number of things. It would be like trying to calulate the loss of HP on the dyno and saying according to my keyboard you should have only lost 15HP switching trans/converter/tires and therefore the TF heads made more power then the AFR and ported Fast.
Your right this thread belongs in the track performance section and with a different title.
Nothing against you sir, just trying to show the other side of reality to those reading this.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Pat we both know that last sentence is no good. Your keyboard can't tell any of the story here. No DA was posted, track prep could have been very different. The MPH increase could be a number of things. It would be like trying to calulate the loss of HP on the dyno and saying according to my keyboard you should have only lost 15HP switching trans/converter/tires and therefore the TF heads made more power then the AFR and ported Fast.
Your right this thread belongs in the track performance section and with a different title.
Nothing against you sir, just trying to show the other side of reality to those reading this.
Your right this thread belongs in the track performance section and with a different title.
Nothing against you sir, just trying to show the other side of reality to those reading this.
I think we're saying the same thing though. If nothing else, it looks like the premium heads (ET, TFS and AFR) are all pretty stellar in the performance department.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by ATVracr
Man, heaven forbid someone doesnt think the TFS are the best thing since sliced bread.
The 4l60 should be more efficent than the TH350 so that maybe why it dynoed less with the 350.
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power.
Congrads on the new number Stripes1987!
The 4l60 should be more efficent than the TH350 so that maybe why it dynoed less with the 350.
He picked up .05 in 60' time I would'nt say the Tbrake is making a HUGE difference.
All the haters/nutswingers are missing one thing .... he picked up 5 mph!
The more efficent better geared 4l60 should have been faster than the TH350 ... unless the new heads & intake combo makes more power.
Congrads on the new number Stripes1987!
Ever heard of something called a converter? Its the thing that goes into the transmission. Speaking of transmission how do we know the shift points were perfect and the trans wasn't slipping? How about the converter being better matched to the combo? How about the converter being more efficient.
Here is the simple logic. If a car makes more power to the rear wheels it should go faster right? Not always as we can see. I will say this if his last combo was perfect (gear,suspension,tire,trans,converter,track prep,weather) then there wouldn't have been a 5 mph gain. The car made less RWHP.
This combo was better setup, the weather was better, etc.
It dosen't matter what head was on the car when it went faster. If this was opposite and he had AFR's on first and switched to trickflows and named this thread swapped my AFR's for Trickflows results inside I would still say the exact same thing. Too many thing have changed to see and gains or looses between heads. In fact I would bet 10,000 dollars that if he drove that car down here and I installed TF heads back on it and 0 other changes it wouldn't loose 5 MPH and I guantree not one of you would take that bet would you?
For my knowledge as I am beginner on this racing side an answer please:
To have a good top speed at the track what is important, Chassis set-up or Engine Power in the used range???
Just curious
Christian
To have a good top speed at the track what is important, Chassis set-up or Engine Power in the used range???
Just curious
Christian
I did not single you out as a TFSnutswinger (guilty conscience)
Much better weather? He said like 10* cooler
Going from 11.0 to 11.2 isnt much of a change.
Ported fast = 10 hp
Tbrake does not increase MPH
You disagree with a 4l60 being more efficent than a TH350?
200 rpm difference in converter rpm is a very slight change also.
200 rpm difference in converter rpm is a very slight change also.
Looks to me the AFR's were better suited for his set up.
Originally Posted by miami993c297
For my knowledge as I am beginner on this racing side an answer please:
To have a good top speed at the track what is important, Chassis set-up or Engine Power in the used range???
Just curious
Christian
To have a good top speed at the track what is important, Chassis set-up or Engine Power in the used range???
Just curious
Christian
Christian
Originally Posted by Patrick G
I think we're saying the same thing though. If nothing else, it looks like the premium heads (ET, TFS and AFR) are all pretty stellar in the performance department.
And each one maybe alittle better or worse of an individual set up.
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
So let me get this straight...you swapped heads, ported intake, transmissions, converter, wheels and tires, added a T brake, ran in 15 degree cooler weather, had higher compression And then make a thread title that sais
That was my same reaction..
Its not apples to oranges or anything..