My et245s came with psi springs I think. I have stock rockers and comp replacement lifters. I spun the motor to 7400 but I didnt feel safe taking it any higher. Hope you get it fixed derrick.

 

We have not used 99893 or 977 springs in over a year and a half. We have switched over to the patriot gold extreme as our standard spring. No problems, we have run them on lsk lobes and stock rockers with no issues. I don't think pewters problem is valvetrain related at all.


cary

 

Cary,

Any ideas then? I sent you a PM but no reply yet.

 

Derrick,

Take the car to the track and run it, don't race the dyno. Shoot me a pm or email me with the serial number on the head and I'll tell you what spring is on the heads.

Thank you,
Craig

 

I would take the car to the track first. I think you are gonna be suprised how it runs. You need to remember that that convertor flashing to 5300 is gonna kill you numbers. If you had a lockup convertor I bet you would pick up 30rwhp.

I'm gonna run a lsk lobe. I'm having the springs double checked on my etp 215's by Speed Inc. We might shim them a little. I let you know when we check the springs if we end up shimming them.

 

Here is my oponion. And what I see.
Its very hard to overlay the graphs as a bunch of stuff was changed.
First off the cam was changed and that could be a good thing could be a bad thing or could have been a wash we will never know though.
You did increase the compression which had to of been a good plus. Porting the manifold should have been a gain but again how much?/? Impossible to tell.

Those are the facts. Here is what I believe...
On the dyno its tought to see a ligit HP with the drivedrain you have.
In my oponion you have a 25% drivetrain loss through. That shows you at around 590 flywheel HP. Christians car with a 15% Drivetrain loss would show him making about 600 flywheel HP. IMO pretty even.
Now take that car to the track and you will see the gains.
What I would be conserned about is the dip in the power between 6000-6200 look like maybe you have knock right there maybe too much timing and its causing detonation in that area. The dip is also in the TQ. I would also like to see you make a pull to 7000 RPMs so we can see if its losing power after peak or if its just being a typical Fast 90 car and droping off after peak but carrying good power all the way out the back.
What I mean by that is... The way this graph is set up makes it look like your loosing a bunch of power after peak but in all reality its only down a few ponys. Your graph makes it look worse then it is because of other graphs we see.
Christians car looses 5-6 HP pretty fast after peak but the way the graph is set up makes the loss look very small.
My guess is you are only going to loose about 7-10HP between 6400-7000RPM's.
Overall IMO your results are great. Its tough to pick up power in a A3 big stalled car with a 9" Rear, and you probally dynoed with a slick on as well.
The only way you will see a true power gain is to put the X4 back in.
I believe it will clear still. How much did you have on the exhaust?

 

We made about 8 pulls. Some were lean, some were rich, some were dead on 12.8:1. Some had knock, some did not. Timing from 22 to 28 was tried. ALL 8 PULLS had the dip at 6200 and had deminishing gains after 5700 rpm.

I'm taking it to the drag strip Saturday. I'm certain it will be faster but I'm also convinced we're missing some power after 5700 rpm even if you exclude the dip. Every before and after graph I have ever seen has gained more power up top than in the middle unless the cams were significantly different. Maybe I just haven't seen enough big stall dyno curves or something. Maybe there is nothing wrong except the dip. Who knows.

All I know is when I see this:



I expect the rest of the curve to look like this:



Or am I just smoking crack?

I'll post again after I've had a chance to try some other parts. I also need to log some more data to see how the injectors are performing, etc. If/When I find the missing 10 peak rwhp, I'll post what the fix was.

Thanks for the opinions/suggestions.

 

I'd be happy with those numbers considering it was unlocked.

 

I'm bringing this thread back to the top just to let everyone know what the problem was because I am no longer concerned about trying to protect ETP. I want nothing to do with that group ever again.

Basically we kept trying different things but everytime we dynoed the car lost more and more power. It was eventually down another 20 rwhp everywhere.

We finally discovered that the springs that came with my heads were for a solid roller cam. We suspected my lifters might be collapsed so I took the motor out and took it apart. I also took the pistons and rods off because number 7 had poor leak down results. The piston was cracked so it was time for a rebuild. I sent my block to Weber and my heads and lifters to ETP. Craig at ETP replaced the springs and looked at my valves. He sent my lifters to some go-in-between company rather than to Morel. That was 17 weeks ago!!!

To this day ETP has not got my lifters back to me. The whole time Craig at ETP kept telling me he didn't know what was taking so long. I had to call the go-in-between company myself and work it out with them. The guy I spoke to told me some interesting info about ETP and that they knew exactly why it was taking so long. He also told me that most of the lifters were either never sent to him or lost in the mail. Finally, he said the 4 lifters that did make it to him were sent to Morel and they determined they were collapsed so they rebuilt them. Ultimately I had to buy a whole new set of lifters because Weber was waiting to finish my 383 stroker for weeks on end and this was the only part they were waiting on. Plus, what good does 4 rebuilt lifters do me anyway? To this day ETP has not got back to me on the lifters. At one point I sent Craig a nasty email and he acted like they did me a favor because they replaced my springs and checked the valves at no cost. So in other words, that was supposed to forgive them for never getting me my lifters back, let alone replacing them because they were collapsed due to their mistake to begin with.

As for the dyno numbers, I was right all along, as well as some others in this thread, that it was valvetrain related. Back when I was trying to figure it out I sent Cary an email and a PM and he did not reply to either one. He wanted Craig to handle everything. In my opinion Craig is just a young kid designated to handle customer service. Not one time did anyone else at ETP offer any suggestions or help. I really wish I had gone with the TrickFlows. And if anyone wants to see the email corresponences between myself and Craig at ETP, I will gladly send them to you, along with the real reason why my lifters were held for so long.

 

Back when these post were strated I contacted Cary about my 99893 springs and he sent me out a set of Patriot Golds right away. I have always had great dealing with them, sorry to hear about your misfortunes.

 

Well its pretty sad that we have to post our problems on a national message board to spur someone into action. This is an email I just received at 3:25 Central Time:

"Evening Derrick,

I just received an emergency Email from ETP on some Morel lifters to be sent to you. Where do you want me to send them? Work or?"

 

sorry to hear your bad luck derrick hope to see you at gateway again soon

 

Well I have a serious overheating problem that no one can figure out so you might not see me at Gateway for ANOTHER year. I already missed this whole season, thanks in part to the 17 week turnaround on my Morel lifters.

 

Derrick,

I am sorry about the whole situation, I really am. It turned into a bad deal from time of the install. Last I heard from you was you were calling Chris and Glen. I told you what I had found out, that was the information that was given to me. If I was informed wrong, that was the information I had sent you. I can only work with what I am given.

I did not try to wrong you, I am sorry that you do feel this way. I though this situation had been cleared up has I did not hear anything from you, Chris or Glen. This is my fault for not checking all the way through. That is why you got that email, about a set of lifters going your way. You can sell them do whatever you want with them.

I am not just some young kid. You should know way better than that.

If you would prefer to talk, check your voice mail that was around 3:30, or call me at the shop 248-668-9390 or on my cell phone 313-999-1523.


Thank you,
Craig

 

Hope everything works out for you Derrick.

 

If you need a hand with the heating problem let me know. I am going to guess redline or some other hack shop in the stl put the motor in.

 

While the misfortunes you had are surely rare, it is without a doubt GOOD (IMHO) to post any information regarding sponsors on a message board such as this so if other people have had the same misfortune with the same company, something can/(is available) to be taken away from the situation and taken into consideration for said company/sponsor so maybe the situation can be made correct/try to avoid the situation in the future. While I dont think that this thread is quite the right medium to be publicly expressing this info, it is not my thread. If I were in this situation, I would have simply updated the thread stating that the valvetrain was to blame in the situation and that you replaced everything, bought new lifters, etc and now you've (unfortunately) got more problems, overheating you say, which seem to be unrelated to the orignal problem albeit still a problem which keep you from racing. I am sure you are not alone in this issue but I am also sure that people (ETP's employee's, since they are humans as well) cant be whole-heartedly trying to screw you out of your set of morel lifters. I am in no way trying to defend ETP in this situation, but Im trying to maybe shed some light on the other side of the scenario which (as far as Im concerned) should never be posted by a sponsor because it looks like they're trying to crawl back out from under the huge anvil which just got dropped on their head. If this doesn't make sense.. Ill keep my mouth shut from now on.


Goodluck with figuring out your overheating issues, hopefully the problem isnt nearly as involved as your valvetrain nightmare/disaster.


At least you can stand back and say, wow; I learned a lot of **** here. You learned who you are and are not going to deal with. You learned that maybe parts which come to you pre-assembled should be checked over before being installed (no offense but how do you get solidrollersprings installed on a hyd roller setup, was this communicated to ETP or did you buy the heads second-hand? once again- not trying to fault you or ETP). And most importantly, imho, that setups should be optimized and chosen together (pick a cam which optimizes the flow characteristics of a particular head and bore its being installed on) especially when being used for a max-effort race application.

Good luck in the future, Derrick. It's unfortunate your road to where you want to be is so rocky but I am sure at one point it will smooth out for you.


Chris

 

I would suggest looking into 3/8" pushrods while it is apart due to the longer length requirement for the ETP heads.

 

Every time you talk you show your true intelligence. How does installing an engine for someone have anything to do with an overheating issue that started when the heads/cam was originally installed last year? We managed to keep the temps down. Before they would climb past 240+.

 

ha fix it then, you kept the temps down did you have backwoods billy running a hose on the motor?