383 ls6 dyno numbers and dyno question?
383 ls6 dyno numbers and dyno question? The car made 497/457rwhp STD on a Dynojet 248 C. But I have a question on converting to SAE.
Condidions.
Engine temp: 185*
Ambient temp: 92*
in-HG: 29.23
Humidity: 28%
STD: 1.05
Here is the question. Is the STD 1.05 the correction factor to get SAE numbers? If so then the motor made 522/480rw which is more in line with what I thought it would make.
Combo.
Forged Eagle bottom end with Diamond pistons
3.905 bore
SCR 12.03:1 DCR 8.73:1, 92 octane
Ported 90/90
Ported AFR 225's
Comp 239/244 .651/.612 112+2
ASP UD
LG LTs w/catts
Borla cat back
Summit RR's
Vararam
Condidions.
Engine temp: 185*
Ambient temp: 92*
in-HG: 29.23
Humidity: 28%
STD: 1.05
Here is the question. Is the STD 1.05 the correction factor to get SAE numbers? If so then the motor made 522/480rw which is more in line with what I thought it would make.
Combo.
Forged Eagle bottom end with Diamond pistons
3.905 bore
SCR 12.03:1 DCR 8.73:1, 92 octane
Ported 90/90
Ported AFR 225's
Comp 239/244 .651/.612 112+2
ASP UD
LG LTs w/catts
Borla cat back
Summit RR's
Vararam
Thanks. Do you know any thing about the correction factor? I am happy with 500rw in 91* weather, but I really think the car should put out a little more.
The best thing is that there is no peak. The car makes these numbers for at least 2,000 rpm on the tq and hp. I have almost 400rwtq at 2,700 rpm.
The best thing is that there is no peak. The car makes these numbers for at least 2,000 rpm on the tq and hp. I have almost 400rwtq at 2,700 rpm.
I have a graph but my scanner is down. When the baby isn't asleep and I can turn a light on I will describe the graph.
Wow Slow Hawk, that sucks. I changed to LG headers, got a ported 90/90, full roller rockers and heads that flow 30cfm better with more compression and only picked up 15rw. I think I am going to go shoot my self now. At least I had 40rwhp and 30rwtq on two tuned 06 Z06's that were there today. I will take it to the track and see what it does. Here is another dyno question. Is there corrected and uncorrected for both? Since it seems that STD and SAE are two compleatly different things. So even though I have STD numbers could the 1.05 be the uncorrected numbers, or is that the correction factor used to get my inflated numbers? Now I am really confused. I always thought STD was what you made on that day, at that time, in those conditions. Then you corrected them to SAE numbers so every one can compare one standard.
Wow Slow Hawk, that sucks. I changed to LG headers, got a ported 90/90, full roller rockers and heads that flow 30cfm better with more compression and only picked up 15rw. I think I am going to go shoot my self now. At least I had 40rwhp and 30rwtq on two tuned 06 Z06's that were there today. I will take it to the track and see what it does. Here is another dyno question. Is there corrected and uncorrected for both? Since it seems that STD and SAE are two compleatly different things. So even though I have STD numbers could the 1.05 be the uncorrected numbers, or is that the correction factor used to get my inflated numbers? Now I am really confused. I always thought STD was what you made on that day, at that time, in those conditions. Then you corrected them to SAE numbers so every one can compare one standard.
Last edited by Pray; Aug 4, 2007 at 08:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by Pray
I have a graph but my scanner is down. When the baby isn't asleep and I can turn a light on I will describe the graph.
Wow Slow Hawk, that sucks. I changed to LG headers, got a ported 90/90, full roller rockers and heads that flow 30cfm better with more compression and only picked up 15rw. I think I am going to go shoot my self now. At least I had 40rwhp and 30rwtq on two tuned 06 Z06's that were there today. I will take it to the track and see what it does. Here is another dyno question. Is there corrected and uncorrected for both? Since it seems that STD and SAE are two compleatly different things. So even though I have STD numbers could the 1.05 be the uncorrected numbers, or is that the correction factor used to get my inflated numbers? Now I am really confused. I always thought STD was what you made on that day, at that time, in those conditions. Then you corrected them to SAE numbers so every one can compare one standard.
Wow Slow Hawk, that sucks. I changed to LG headers, got a ported 90/90, full roller rockers and heads that flow 30cfm better with more compression and only picked up 15rw. I think I am going to go shoot my self now. At least I had 40rwhp and 30rwtq on two tuned 06 Z06's that were there today. I will take it to the track and see what it does. Here is another dyno question. Is there corrected and uncorrected for both? Since it seems that STD and SAE are two compleatly different things. So even though I have STD numbers could the 1.05 be the uncorrected numbers, or is that the correction factor used to get my inflated numbers? Now I am really confused. I always thought STD was what you made on that day, at that time, in those conditions. Then you corrected them to SAE numbers so every one can compare one standard.
I believe the above is correct. You adjust your run under what ever conditions to a set standard. That 1.05 number up there may be the adjustment, not sure. Call the dyno operator to find out for sure.
What were the new Z's putting out before and after a tune?
D.J.
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Verdad Gallardo One quick. The new Z's put down 455/432rw and 452/434rw both with tunes. So I don't think mine didn't do that bad. My curve was better all over. The curve on this engine is what impresses me. It makes 390rwtq at 2,700 and never looks back. It is over 400rwtq from 3,600 to 6,300. It is over 450rwtq at 4,500 and holds till 5,200. The hp is over 400rw at 4,600, 450rw at 5,200, 490rw at 6,00-6,600, and is still at 480rw at 6,800.
Venom. Thanks. I thought they were pretty good considering the weather and what every one else was putting down.
Venom. Thanks. I thought they were pretty good considering the weather and what every one else was putting down.
I've heard the LS-7 Z was making around 445RWHP or so stock. I forget the torque numbers. Your car should be a lot of fun with those numbers. Tony Mamo of AFR put down some serious numbers in his 383 and his car will haul the mail at the track. I think he went 11 flats at Bakersfield and Orange County. That Orange County 11 flat was really something special given the altitude of the track. You should run a good number if you can hook her up.
D.J.
D.J.
Originally Posted by Pray
One quick. The new Z's put down 455/432rw and 452/434rw both with tunes. So I don't think mine didn't do that bad. My curve was better all over. The curve on this engine is what impresses me. It makes 390rwtq at 2,700 and never looks back. It is over 400rwtq from 3,600 to 6,300. It is over 450rwtq at 4,500 and holds till 5,200. The hp is over 400rw at 4,600, 450rw at 5,200, 490rw at 6,00-6,600, and is still at 480rw at 6,800.
Venom. Thanks. I thought they were pretty good considering the weather and what every one else was putting down.
Venom. Thanks. I thought they were pretty good considering the weather and what every one else was putting down.
How the car is reacting daily driven?
Are you always running pump gas with your SRC?
Christian
my question to you PRAY: im doing a very similar set up( actually i believe we spoke in the past about doing similar set ups) but i was told with the added stroke the tuner has to take timing out. is that true? any other tuning tricks to help out? the only difference is i dont have a ported 90/90 yet
One Quick. Well I think my previous track numbers with only 465rw were right in line with Tony Mamo's. Not taking any thing away from him because he is a great guy and has helped me emensly with my project. I wish I would have listend to him and kept my 205's on this combo, but you spend and learn. I actually have his headers on my car. He also built one nasty motor and has forgotten more about engines than I know. I ran an 11.5 on street radials at 127.3 and 102 in the eighth with a full tank of gas and my tool box in the back. The car wasn't track tuned yet and I couldn't shift under power. The clutch was not disengageing under power due to my eagle crank. The not being able to shift was killing me. So with that combo I am sure I would have run low elevens at 130 or so with the car running properly at 465rw. I am expecting to run inbetween 132-5 in the quarter and 105 or so in the eighth. Now ET wise I would have to get a CCW drag pack to max that out.
The Z's usually do put down those numbers. Every one was dynoing low yesterday. Three of us use the same dyno usually. The other two were down 20-30rw from our normal dyno. I will have to go to my regular dyno to get some comparable numbers. So as far as what those cars were putting down compared to what I put down on that dyno on that day in those conditions I am pretty happy. I know most tuned Z's run in the 470-480rw range.
Miami. I would love to compare our graphs. I run 28* total on 92 pump with no knock. I actually ran all the way to 32* total but with no gains. The car makes the same power from 25* total on up, but it never knocks. I didn't detune my knock sensors what so ever. The cam bleeds off so much compression it is sick. It would be a great nitrous engine. I wouldn't have to detune it for the juice.
SS/Miami. The car drives great but I am working on an off throttle issue. It wants to hunt untill I come to a complete stop. I had it figured out with the LS6 intake but the 90/90 is giving me some issues. I will never go with a 112 lobe sep cam again. I have done four customers cars with 112 lobe sep cams of all durations and all have the same issue. The four with 114 lobe sep cam run fine and are easy to tune. I am not sure what the issue is. I will find out though.
The Z's usually do put down those numbers. Every one was dynoing low yesterday. Three of us use the same dyno usually. The other two were down 20-30rw from our normal dyno. I will have to go to my regular dyno to get some comparable numbers. So as far as what those cars were putting down compared to what I put down on that dyno on that day in those conditions I am pretty happy. I know most tuned Z's run in the 470-480rw range.
Miami. I would love to compare our graphs. I run 28* total on 92 pump with no knock. I actually ran all the way to 32* total but with no gains. The car makes the same power from 25* total on up, but it never knocks. I didn't detune my knock sensors what so ever. The cam bleeds off so much compression it is sick. It would be a great nitrous engine. I wouldn't have to detune it for the juice.
SS/Miami. The car drives great but I am working on an off throttle issue. It wants to hunt untill I come to a complete stop. I had it figured out with the LS6 intake but the 90/90 is giving me some issues. I will never go with a 112 lobe sep cam again. I have done four customers cars with 112 lobe sep cams of all durations and all have the same issue. The four with 114 lobe sep cam run fine and are easy to tune. I am not sure what the issue is. I will find out though.
Originally Posted by Pray
.....
SS/Miami. The car drives great but I am working on an off throttle issue. It wants to hunt untill I come to a complete stop. I had it figured out with the LS6 intake but the 90/90 is giving me some issues. I will never go with a 112 lobe sep cam again. I have done four customers cars with 112 lobe sep cams of all durations and all have the same issue. The four with 114 lobe sep cam run fine and are easy to tune. I am not sure what the issue is. I will find out though.
SS/Miami. The car drives great but I am working on an off throttle issue. It wants to hunt untill I come to a complete stop. I had it figured out with the LS6 intake but the 90/90 is giving me some issues. I will never go with a 112 lobe sep cam again. I have done four customers cars with 112 lobe sep cams of all durations and all have the same issue. The four with 114 lobe sep cam run fine and are easy to tune. I am not sure what the issue is. I will find out though.
I know exactly what you are talking about here... cruising down the highway, clutch in, revs drop, and then they swing up and down in the idle range. Obviously adaptive idle is out of the window since the car is moving (which sucks, because this is an idle condition) ... Have a good look at running airflow and spark. I try to curve the bottom end of the tables up to help "catch" it. Also try zeroing the throttle cracker table and add 1.5g to the 400RPM column to keep it from swinging low enough to cutoff and maybe add a piece of a gram to the next column, but leave it zero at 0 MPH. This is a persistent phenom with tighter LSA's and M6's.
Simple math people. A x B = C
A = Actual rwhp
B = Correction Factor
C = STD rwhp
1.05 was the correction factor they used to get your STD numbers. Basically they took A x 1.05 = C. C in this case is 497 rwhp. So your actual rwhp is 497/1.05, or 473. STD numbers are about 4% higher than SAE numbers. So you can either take 473 x 1.01 to get 477 or you can take 497 / 1.04 to get 477.
http://yzf-r1forum.net/old/Dyno.html
A = Actual rwhp
B = Correction Factor
C = STD rwhp
1.05 was the correction factor they used to get your STD numbers. Basically they took A x 1.05 = C. C in this case is 497 rwhp. So your actual rwhp is 497/1.05, or 473. STD numbers are about 4% higher than SAE numbers. So you can either take 473 x 1.01 to get 477 or you can take 497 / 1.04 to get 477.
http://yzf-r1forum.net/old/Dyno.html
SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), USA. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.23 InHg (99 kPa) of dry air and 77 F (25°C). This SAE standard requires a correction for friction torque. Friction torque can be determined by measurements on special motoring dynamometers (which is only practical in research environments) or can be estimated. When estimates must be used, the SAE standard uses a default Mechanical Efficiency (ME) value of 85%. This is approximately correct at peak torque but not at other engine operating speeds. Some dynamometer systems use the SAE correction factor for atmospheric conditions but do not take mechanical efficiency into consideration at all (i.e. they assume a ME of 100%).
STD or STP. Another power correction standard determined by the SAE. This standard has been stable for a long time and is widely used in the performance industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.92 InHg (103.3 kPa) of dry air and 60 F (15.5°C). Because the reference conditions include higher pressure and cooler air than the SAE standard, these corrected power numbers will always be about 4 % higher than the SAE power numbers. Friction torque is handled in the same way as in the SAE standard.
ECE (European Community), Europe. The ECE standard is based on the European Directives. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 99 kPa (29.23 InHg) of dry air and 25°C (77 F). Friction torque is not taken into consideration at all.
DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm), Germany .The DIN standard is determined by the German automotive industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 101.3 kPa (29.33 InHg) of dry air and 20°C (68 F). With the advent of European legislation and standards, national standards such as the DIN (formerly widely used) are now less significant.
Actual You may see this on some charts, especially from Ivan. What this means is this is the actual horsepower achived on the day tested and no correction factor has been applied. One can assume better or worse results with varying weather conditions.
STD or STP. Another power correction standard determined by the SAE. This standard has been stable for a long time and is widely used in the performance industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.92 InHg (103.3 kPa) of dry air and 60 F (15.5°C). Because the reference conditions include higher pressure and cooler air than the SAE standard, these corrected power numbers will always be about 4 % higher than the SAE power numbers. Friction torque is handled in the same way as in the SAE standard.
ECE (European Community), Europe. The ECE standard is based on the European Directives. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 99 kPa (29.23 InHg) of dry air and 25°C (77 F). Friction torque is not taken into consideration at all.
DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm), Germany .The DIN standard is determined by the German automotive industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 101.3 kPa (29.33 InHg) of dry air and 20°C (68 F). With the advent of European legislation and standards, national standards such as the DIN (formerly widely used) are now less significant.
Actual You may see this on some charts, especially from Ivan. What this means is this is the actual horsepower achived on the day tested and no correction factor has been applied. One can assume better or worse results with varying weather conditions.
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If my math is right..
Temp: 92F
Pressure: 29.23
Humidity: 28%
Dewpoint: 54F
Vapor Pressure: 0.42
Plugging it in the handy SAE Dyno correction calucator..wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm
I'm coming up with your SAE Dyno Correction Factor as: 1.034
So ~1.6% lower than your STD #'s..About 9 HP/8TQ lower.
Great numbers, must feel nice!
WeathermanShawn..
Temp: 92F
Pressure: 29.23
Humidity: 28%
Dewpoint: 54F
Vapor Pressure: 0.42
Plugging it in the handy SAE Dyno correction calucator..wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm
I'm coming up with your SAE Dyno Correction Factor as: 1.034
So ~1.6% lower than your STD #'s..About 9 HP/8TQ lower.
Great numbers, must feel nice!
WeathermanShawn..
So I am close to 490/450rw SAE. I guess I can be happy with that. I can't see 477rw. I made 465 with crappy headers, no 90/90, 30cfm less heads, -.205 compression and no roller rocker arms. I don't see me getting only 12rw out of all those things. I am going to get on my regular dyno and get some numbers. I will post up when that is done. Then we can all settle this.
