trukk

iTrader: (1)

I wanted to post this, as there always seems to be debate on here if a FAST 90/90 is worth it or not. Well read on for my results on a stock head/cam, basically full bolt-on 346. For those who are impatient, I gained 10 rwph, lost 3 rwtq, and lost a bunch under the curve (pre 5500 rpm).

Background:With that in mind, my initial mods were:I added:Testing info:Results:

My goal was to wrap up my bolt on's, in preparation for a cam, and then heads later down the line. I don't plan to go with an EWP. I will add an under drive pulley when I do my cam. With that in mind, the overall gains were about what I expected. I was a bit surprised that I lost so much under the curve, but I guess the stock cam/heads are having some issues with the increased flow in and out.


This was definately a chunk of change ($750 for Fast, $400 for NW, $500 for port, $350 for install/re-tune) On par with the cost of Headers/Cats (at least for a CTS-V, they are expensive).

I'm hoping that I am now well positioned to see a very nice gain from a cam.


Thanks for taking a look,

Chris

ls1muscle

iTrader: (16)

That's got to be dissapointing to see after spending 2 grand. But it will shine once you have heads + cam to make it useful.

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the stock intake and TB are fairly sufficient for a bolt-on car. The debate centers around how much it helps a cam-only or h/c combo. You won't see the improvement now after the heads/cam install, but you may just see strong numbers right off the bat since you already have the FAST done. I see it as being worth it if you were going to spend the money in the future anyways (after the cam or heads).

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

Theres def a difference between putting a FAST 90 on a bone stocker, and putting one on a 403 or something with similar breathing requirements.
With that being said, I still think they are way over priced. We sell quite a few of them, but thats only because they're the only thing out there right now.

KONG

iTrader: (4)

Well honestly I would expect gains like that on a bolt-on car. A 346 motor thrives on velocity and when you slow velocity you manage to kill all usable power. Of course you will see a small gain in the upper rpms but who keeps there DD in that rpm range all the time. A Fast 90 is a good modification if you have exhausted all other avenue's. The LS6 intake is a very capable piece but for some reason everyone thinks bigger is better on a small cube motor. Sorry for your loss in power bro.

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not looking for crazy power when I'm just cruising in or daily driving my car. I want the power to be there when I drop a few gears and mash the pedal during a race in high RPMs. Who goes around looking for torque at 3k when they're just cruising OR racing? Give me high RPM power when I'm racing. That's when I care and that's when it counts. If you're dropping below 4500 or so during a race, you're either launching on street tires or not driving the car correctly (MAYBE 4000 in certain situations).

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

Chris,
Couple of comments I wanted to make - the AFR was a little leaner than you mentioned - 12.4 to 12.5 - I can do a screen shot of the pull and send it to you if you want the info... I always keep every log though, so I will have it for the future...

Also, just want everyone to know that he was told exactly what to expect and where it would lose power/torque. He understood and was planning for the future - have been accused of pushing uneeded and expensive parts on people in the past and that is not at all what we do...

Thanks for the post and let me know if I can help you with your future plans.
Bret

KONG

iTrader: (4)

Not saying anything negative about the guys set-up. Just going by what he posted up.

KONG

iTrader: (4)

You are in a lonely crowd my friend. Anyone with any kind of common sense wants power EVERYWHERE in the powerband. USEABLE power, not a peaky turd that wakes up at 4500rpm. If that is the kind of power that you like then a Honda or Acura might be a better fit for you.

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

Why do you need power outside of your powerband? Who the hell races outside of their powerband? I didn't say I don't want power everywhere, I just said I'd sacrifice power down low for more power where it counts. That sounds like common sense to me when building a car made for racing. I don't race my daily driver and I don't daily drive my race car. Maybe someone who does would feel differently.

By the way, in a car built for racing, "useable" power is power in the powerband. Massive power below 4000 is kind of useless unless you do a lot of racing in the <4000 RPM range. And like I said, if you're racing below 4000 RPM in an LSX car, you don't know how to race. Period.

You know what, let's each build a car. It will be the same car but different setups. You build yours to make big torque below 4000-4500 and have no decent hp above 4500, and I'll build mine to have nothing below 4500 but a ton of peak horsepower at 4500 and above. Then we'll race. I'll win.

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

Gotcha - wasn't referring to anyone that posted - I occasionally have trolls that like to follow me around and give me a hard time, figured I'd cut them off at the pass

ScreaminRedZ

iTrader: (3)

Of course everyone would want to make huge power everywhere, but it's not usually feesable. Based on how I drive my car, I'd rather have big power up top than monster power down low with no power higher in the RPM's. I think alot of people will agree since most people build these motors to rev to 6500-7000 rpms. Why do you think the MS3/MS4 cams are so popular.

trukk

iTrader: (1)

Just to add what Bret said.

FBC installed and tuned for me. That's it. I brought all my parts to them, and asked to install and tune. They weren't part of my decision to go this route. As a matter of fact when I called Jason to schedule this, the first thing he said was " You know you are going to loose tourque down low, and just gain a bit up top with your set up, right?" I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH THE WORK FBC AND BRET DID ON MY CAR. (Is that clear enough )

Again, while I wish I hadn't lost so much down low, I'm really just preparing for my future mods, and wanted to get all the bolt-on's out of the way.

Anyone want to recommend a Cam for my set up? Keep in mind this is a daily driver. I don't want to be checking/changing valve springs every other oil change (or even once a year. I put about 20/k mi per year on this car). Also I plan to do cam first, heads later, so I won't be swapping out the lifters when I do the cam.

Thanks,

Chris

LivingCanvas

iTrader: (4)

As far as cam recommendations you cant deny the ol' tr224 or tsp224 on a stock cube motor. I have the tsp and the thing behaves really really well even on stock tuning. Has a nice idle chop to it too. And with heads it'll be even better. Nice daily driver cam. And works within a nice rpm range. You dont have to rev it to 7k and stretch the stock rod bolts haha.

Either that or have a custom one spec'd.

1997bird

iTrader: (2)

Maybe I missed it somewhere here, but what heads are you going to use for your future bolt on's?
Also where do you want your rpm range to fall?

trukk

iTrader: (1)

I didn't mention it, but should have. Thanks for asking.

For the cam, I don't plan on changing the redline of 6600. I'd prefer an rpm band between 3000/3500 to 6200/6500. it doesn't have to be exact, but that's the ballpark.

One big thing to consider with the CTS-V, although it weighs a lot (4000ish), it does come with 3.73's. Also it has a really crappy rear end, that will blow to bits if you have too much low end torque. So that is a factor.

I'll probabaly live with the cam for at least a year, perhaps more, before going to the heads. At that point, I'll probabaly go with a premium set, like AFR 205's, TF's, etc. At that point too, I'll probably go with some quality replacements for rockers, lifters (almost have to put caddy racing lifters in this car don't I ), and will probabaly do springs again. Also at this point I plan to probabaly move my rev limiter up to 7000, if it makes sense.

Probabaly not too far beyond the heads install, this car will becomes more of a weekend/road course car.

Thanks for reading, and taking the time to provide comments. I know the 'help me pic my cam' requests can get annoying around here.

-Chris

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

I think what you may have stumbled into is a situation where the heads are now presenting a "wall" to the incoming flow due to the narrow ports and the ported FAST being mis-matched. My personal opinion at this point, and I have a reason, is to look harder at heads as the next mod as opposed to the cam. The cam will pull more air, but the wall will remain so don't be surprised if your results are disappointing. If it were my car, I would put on a set of AFR's and tighten the compression/quench. I think your gains will then be realized at both ends of the RPM range.

1997bird

iTrader: (2)

+1 on this post.

It may better off waiting on the heads even for now and save up until you can do the heads, cam, & lifters all at once. This may save you some frustration down the road with mis-matched parts. I would suggest a narrower LSA(111*-110*) so that you can shift your TQ spike into your mid to upper rpm range.

trukk

iTrader: (1)

The actual size/location of the FAST ports were not changed. After taking a look inside, the humps were smoothed out, etc. [Perhaps Tony Mamo can pop in here and provide some feedback.] I haven't heard that there is much of mismatch between a fast intake and stock 243's. I certainly haven't heard or seen it all (by any stretch), so I could be wrong on this. Anyone have any feedback on this hypothesis, by VN?

Thanks for the info VN.

-Chris

A502slo

iTrader: (4)

Chris, thanks for the call and glad we were able to get it done for you. . Sorry i did not chat more with you. You may want to look up Patrick G on here for cam specs. Maybe Brett can chime in with what he thinks about his specs. I had my cam done by him and was very happy. Not sure if Brett has seen anymore with his cam specs. Sounds like you are ready for that cam, Also talk to brett they have a very good machine "head" shop that they use. Also when you were up there did you look at the Black V