E85 vs regular gas dyno
i love all the naysayers saying we cant do this and that. this is America we can do anything we want to as long as the country has the brains to go for it. if south america can have self sustained ethanol plants and use e-85 as their primary fuel why in the hell cant we?
in theory e85 is great, if they used the right sources. right now its just making politicians butt buddies rich while screwing everyone else in the process.
you're absolutely right it is. however after the corn is done with the ethanol process you still have a byproduct that can be used as feed additionally its even a higher quality feed.
heres a article about it from university of illinois.
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/00/05wetmiltip.html
heres a article about it from university of illinois.
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/00/05wetmiltip.html
you're absolutely right it is. however after the corn is done with the ethanol process you still have a byproduct that can be used as feed additionally its even a higher quality feed.
heres a article about it from university of illinois.
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/00/05wetmiltip.html
heres a article about it from university of illinois.
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/00/05wetmiltip.html
well, ya learn something every day
the question is if and when will it be implemented on a mass scale to make it truly efficient and beneficial to us with no ill side effects like the current e85; which imo, is doing more harm than good.
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Last edited by rons 00z; Apr 24, 2008 at 05:58 PM.
thats a good question. but in order for it to work in a timely fashion it's going to do some harm since it's not 100%efficient. however, i think gas is doing more harm to us right now since the costs are so high which progressively raises costs for everything. IMO though i'd rather pay 3.50 a gallon and keep the money in this country than paying 3.50 and send the money to somewhere else.
[QUOTE=Stang's Bane;9227191]They are closer to $200 million for a newer more efficient plant.
QUOTE]
i work at an oil refinery and out here 200 million is nothing. although i dont know much about it, making the E-85 must be a fairly simple process for the entire plant to only cost $200M. i was olanning to run it in my car but after reading about the corroding aluminum previously posted, i dont think it would work too well with my fuel cell.
QUOTE]
i work at an oil refinery and out here 200 million is nothing. although i dont know much about it, making the E-85 must be a fairly simple process for the entire plant to only cost $200M. i was olanning to run it in my car but after reading about the corroding aluminum previously posted, i dont think it would work too well with my fuel cell.
Sorry guys!!! I feel that its mostly my fault that this Thread is so far off topic. Alls I said was I dont run ethanol in my rides.
If I get started on this countrys politics and problems with fuel and energy, this tread will never die. So sorry guys, im out.
Peace....
If I get started on this countrys politics and problems with fuel and energy, this tread will never die. So sorry guys, im out.
Peace....
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What info do you have to back this up, because you don't know what your talking about. I have dyno graphs of my car picking up 23RWHP and the only thing that was changed was the fuel.
The curve's are almost exactly the same with the 93 pump vs the E85, just 23 peak RWHP
The curve's are almost exactly the same with the 93 pump vs the E85, just 23 peak RWHP
[QUOTE=9sec93;9229898] It is the same process as making corn whiskey. Just on a very large scale.
i work in a oil refinery also and I just got finished building an ethanol plant
The feed by products are a reality NOW.
They are closer to $200 million for a newer more efficient plant.
QUOTE]
i work at an oil refinery and out here 200 million is nothing. although i dont know much about it, making the E-85 must be a fairly simple process for the entire plant to only cost $200M. i was olanning to run it in my car but after reading about the corroding aluminum previously posted, i dont think it would work too well with my fuel cell.
QUOTE]
i work at an oil refinery and out here 200 million is nothing. although i dont know much about it, making the E-85 must be a fairly simple process for the entire plant to only cost $200M. i was olanning to run it in my car but after reading about the corroding aluminum previously posted, i dont think it would work too well with my fuel cell.
i work in a oil refinery also and I just got finished building an ethanol plant
The feed by products are a reality NOW.
also guys not sure if this is going to be deleted or not but feel free to check out www.e85performance.net it has alot of the questions and myths answered there. it's small now but hopefully will pick up as e85 get more and more popular.
E85 WILL make more HP than pump gas, just depends on what you are doing. A procharged C5, for instance, will pick up 20-50 HP (7-8 psi, stock bottom half) over premium. N/A the gains aren't quite as good (6-8 RWHP consistently on a 420 hp application LS motor) But the knock retard will be non existent. We've made over 1000 to the tire on a whole bunch of different applications over the last three years, and in my judgment, if the fuel is accessible to you, there is no comparison to premium. We've done over 2100 vehicles on the stuff and have found the only corrosion issues is with bare aluminum fuel cells, the fuel forms aluminum oxide OVER TIME. this is a black residue that forms (anodized is NOT a problem). Older natural rubber will corrode, anything made in the last 15 years is usually not a problem (except a few imports) Most of the other components are compatible, and we have seen ZERO issues with fuel pumps, lines, etc. I think we are in the 100s for LS motored cars alone that we've done, not counting the 1500+ K series pick-ups we've done. There is a lot of bad info out there, and alot of guys that say they know what they are talking about but have little to no first hand experience. It's all "well my buddy's uncle is a mechanic and..." Bullshit. show me hard evidence of problems. Mileage on a C5 on Korn is only about a 10-12 percent reduction (hand calculated) if the tune is correct. I have 427 stroker guys running 26-28 on gas and 28-30 on e85. Corvette fever just did an article that came out this month on 2 of them. We've made 1200 to the tire with a C5 on Korn, 1380 hp with a turbo mustang (thru a TH400), and a whole bunch of blow thru carb stuff over the 1000 mark. Like i said, if you try to compare it to pump gas, you will find no argument for the plus side unless you can't get it or if you are N/A and have to spend money to up inj and fuel pump because you don't have the capacity with your current set-up. N/A gains, again, are not as significant, but forced induction is a no-brainer. This is the hard facts on the fuel for your car, leave the politics out of this (it always ends up that way...)
pics of internals- http://www.rune85.com/internal%20engine.htm
Look at all the cars in the dynomax dyno challenge, 8 of the top ten (or 8 of the top 8) chose e85 over premium, and the LEAST hp we made with those cars was 1130.
andy
pics of internals- http://www.rune85.com/internal%20engine.htm
Look at all the cars in the dynomax dyno challenge, 8 of the top ten (or 8 of the top 8) chose e85 over premium, and the LEAST hp we made with those cars was 1130.
andy
thats a good question. but in order for it to work in a timely fashion it's going to do some harm since it's not 100%efficient. however, i think gas is doing more harm to us right now since the costs are so high which progressively raises costs for everything. IMO though i'd rather pay 3.50 a gallon and keep the money in this country than paying 3.50 and send the money to somewhere else.
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[QUOTE=9sec93;9229898] Just an FYI- the corrosion I was tallking about takes place OVER TIME. It would take YEARS for your fuel cell to get noticalby corroded. What it does is form a thin blackish film (aluiminum oxide) on the inside of the tank OVER TIME (again, this is bare aluminum ONLY) Many compounds of aluminum do NOT have this problem as they have other metals that change the properties of them also. The airplane guys have used E98 in there stuff for years, and it is noticed to be a problem after a couple of years. If I hop into an airplane worth 60-100k (on up) powered by E98 and rely on it to get me somewhere (and get there safely everytime, especially with FAA standards) I would not worry too much about a $200 fuel cell.
They are closer to $200 million for a newer more efficient plant.
QUOTE]
i work at an oil refinery and out here 200 million is nothing. although i dont know much about it, making the E-85 must be a fairly simple process for the entire plant to only cost $200M. i was olanning to run it in my car but after reading about the corroding aluminum previously posted, i dont think it would work too well with my fuel cell.
QUOTE]
i work at an oil refinery and out here 200 million is nothing. although i dont know much about it, making the E-85 must be a fairly simple process for the entire plant to only cost $200M. i was olanning to run it in my car but after reading about the corroding aluminum previously posted, i dont think it would work too well with my fuel cell.
i've always wanted a flying delorean BTW
E85 burns slower than standard pump gas. The higher the octane level, the slower the fuel burns.
Also, read up on the new technology called gassification. It's a process where trash (anything containing carbon ie: used tires) is converted into ethanol.
Also, read up on the new technology called gassification. It's a process where trash (anything containing carbon ie: used tires) is converted into ethanol.
E85 is great for the power, no doubt. Check out the GTO we just finished up that runs it. (GTO Build) We are starting to get some major interest in the conversions from regular gas. There is one thing though, the smell out of the pump makes you want to puke. I guess thats a good way to stop some crazies from sipping some.
if you're going to use e85 you almost HAVE to get the car tuned for it. different a/f ratio and different timing tables come to mind first.
i plan on converting to e85 when i do the cam swap in the ole ta. indiana is building dozens of ethanol plants as we speak. i work for a company that deals with etoh plants quite a bit. within the next 5 years you will see the availability of it go through the roof - around here anyway. i don't see why the mpg standards would apply to a renewable energy source that burns so much cleaner than gasoline...
i am looking forward to using it. more hp, cleaner fuel, cleaner engine. the car gets like 1000 mile a year put on it anyway, why not? i'd convert my dd to it, but i don't think the ole 03 f1fiddy would like it too much...it's a big enough turd now and definately not e85 compatible.
also, consider this fuel is in its baby step stage. like EVERYTHING ELSE that is new and weird, it will take time to grow on everyone. i don't think this is the permanent solution to gasoline, but it will definately make everyone think and get the ball rolling on efficient ALTERNATIVE FUELS.
i plan on converting to e85 when i do the cam swap in the ole ta. indiana is building dozens of ethanol plants as we speak. i work for a company that deals with etoh plants quite a bit. within the next 5 years you will see the availability of it go through the roof - around here anyway. i don't see why the mpg standards would apply to a renewable energy source that burns so much cleaner than gasoline...
i am looking forward to using it. more hp, cleaner fuel, cleaner engine. the car gets like 1000 mile a year put on it anyway, why not? i'd convert my dd to it, but i don't think the ole 03 f1fiddy would like it too much...it's a big enough turd now and definately not e85 compatible.
also, consider this fuel is in its baby step stage. like EVERYTHING ELSE that is new and weird, it will take time to grow on everyone. i don't think this is the permanent solution to gasoline, but it will definately make everyone think and get the ball rolling on efficient ALTERNATIVE FUELS.