Its that time of the year......
Its that time of the year...... Pitchers and Catchers report for spring training. baseball season is upon us. incase some of you havent heard or been living under a rock, the Phills picked up some guy named Cliff Lee to add to their rotation and may now have the best starting rotation in baseball since the Braves teams of the early 90's....so with that in mind, what is your prediction for wins this year??
im not expecting a rediculous win total but i see them winning about 105 games this year...what do you guys think??
also...what do you Met/Braves/nationals/Marlins fans think about having to fave an Ace just about every game??
im not expecting a rediculous win total but i see them winning about 105 games this year...what do you guys think??
also...what do you Met/Braves/nationals/Marlins fans think about having to fave an Ace just about every game??
The Cardinals picked up some guy named Lance Berkman to add to their devastating lineup of Pujols/Holliday/Rasmus. They also got a hard throwing pitcher from Seattle named Maikel Cleto to add to their top notch pitching staff of Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia/Westbrook. Plus they picked up Ryan Theriot and their star rookie 3rd baseman David Freese will be starting this year after missing most of the season last year. So I'd say they Phillies are in for some trouble this year.
The Cardinals picked up some guy named Lance Berkman to add to their devastating lineup of Pujols/Holliday/Rasmus. They also got a hard throwing pitcher from Seattle named Maikel Cleto to add to their top notch pitching staff of Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia/Westbrook. Plus they picked up Ryan Theriot and their star rookie 3rd baseman David Freese will be starting this year after missing most of the season last year. So I'd say they Phillies are in for some trouble this year.
I wouldn't call Cliff Lee a great pitcher, he gave up the winning home run to Edgar Renteria in last years world series and got knocked out early in the first game and ended up getting the loss.
not to mention...2 years ago he beat the yankees twice in the world series and pretty much dominated that team.
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I know he didn't pitch every game, but he lost both of the games he pitched in the world series. The Cardinals have Carpenter & Wainwright and they are both better than Lee. The only pitcher that stacks up to those 2 guys is Roy Holiday. Plus the Phillies lost one of their best hitters when they traded Werth. I don't see them getting past the Cardinals with Howard & Utley being their only good hitters.
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Verdad Gallardo I know he didn't pitch every game, but he lost both of the games he pitched in the world series. The Cardinals have Carpenter & Wainwright and they are both better than Lee. The only pitcher that stacks up to those 2 guys is Roy Holiday. Plus the Phillies lost one of their best hitters when they traded Werth. I don't see them getting past the Cardinals with Howard & Utley being their only good hitters.
Rollins hit .243 last year, Victorino hit .259, Ibanez hit .275, Utely hit .275 and Howard hit .276, that's hardly what I'd call good hitting. The Cardinals have a lot better overall hitting with a pitching staff that's right up there with them too.
Sure good pitching will get a team to the world series, but the other team will have good pitching too, so you have to out hit them. I just don't see the Phillies being a good offensive team.
Sure good pitching will get a team to the world series, but the other team will have good pitching too, so you have to out hit them. I just don't see the Phillies being a good offensive team.
Rollins hit .243 last year, Victorino hit .259, Ibanez hit .275, Utely hit .275 and Howard hit .276, that's hardly what I'd call good hitting. The Cardinals have a lot better overall hitting with a pitching staff that's right up there with them too.
Sure good pitching will get a team to the world series, but the other team will have good pitching too, so you have to out hit them. I just don't see the Phillies being a good offensive team.
Sure good pitching will get a team to the world series, but the other team will have good pitching too, so you have to out hit them. I just don't see the Phillies being a good offensive team.
and how are they not a good offensive team?? they are 1 year removed from having 5 guys that hit atleast 30 homeruns....they averaged 7+ runs a game.
You have to stop lookin at this as an indivisual thing and look at the big picture....Phillies know how to win as they've done it the last 4 years quite well...including a 4 game sweep of St louis late last year...this year, everyone is healthy going into spring training and now we actually have a stout starting rotation...which we havent had in recent years.
we can go back and forth with this untill the season starts and i dont wanna do that so ill end this conversation with....lets see what happens. Goodluck to your Cards.
Last edited by TNTramair; Feb 15, 2011 at 05:22 PM.
WAR
Carpenter 5.9
Wainwright 6.4
Lee 3.9 w/ clev, 1.3 w/ phi
2010 -
WAR
Carpenter 3.0
Wainwright 5.7
Lee 2.7 w/ sea, 1.6 w/ tex
Not even close. Carpenter and Wainwright are statistically bettern than Lee.
You guys are comparing the Cards #1 and #2 pitchers to Lee who could possibly be the 3 or 4 pitcher in the rotation.
Honestly, the possibility is there for the Phillies to have 4 20 game winners this year.
And to the knock on the Phils offense, they were either #1 or #2 in runs scored last year, which when I checked last, that's what goes on the scoreboard to determine the winner of the game and not batting average or ERA.
Either way, if the Phils can stay healthy, there's no reason they can't win over 100 games this year.
Show me a team with a better #3 or #4 or even #5 pitcher than the Phils.
Honestly, the possibility is there for the Phillies to have 4 20 game winners this year.
And to the knock on the Phils offense, they were either #1 or #2 in runs scored last year, which when I checked last, that's what goes on the scoreboard to determine the winner of the game and not batting average or ERA.
Either way, if the Phils can stay healthy, there's no reason they can't win over 100 games this year.
Show me a team with a better #3 or #4 or even #5 pitcher than the Phils.
TNT!!!!! WTF I think your jumping the dam gun a weeeee bit here. Guys playing with sticks and *****.. WTF... Its not that dam time of the year until I am laying down 2 nice black streaks down the road.... I froze my fugging nuts off this morning and read about fuggging florida. Your pretty fugged up... You go snuggle back up to the internet in your warm office...
And to the knock on the Phils offense, they were either #1 or #2 in runs scored last year, which when I checked last, that's what goes on the scoreboard to determine the winner of the game and not batting average or ERA.
And the Phillies lost their best RBI man when they traded Jason Werth. So much for scoring the most runs last year, this is a new year and one big hitter will make a huge difference. The Cardinals picked up another big bat with Berkman, in addition to the big bats they have already. The Phillies got better pitching by adding Lee but they lost a key player. Where as the Cardinals made improvements across the board without losing any key players.
And the Phillies lost their best RBI man when they traded Jason Werth. So much for scoring the most runs last year, this is a new year and one big hitter will make a huge difference. The Cardinals picked up another big bat with Berkman, in addition to the big bats they have already. The Phillies got better pitching by adding Lee but they lost a key player. Where as the Cardinals made improvements across the board without losing any key players.
Werth was only their leading rbi because he had Howard, Utley and Victorino in front of him. Add to that the fact that all of the 1-4 hitters spent time on the DL and Werth was healthy most of the season, and it speaks volumes.
Both Rollins and Utley had a good offseason and should be back in form this year with the bats.
I'm not worried about their offense.
Let's see what Werth does in DC.
Both Rollins and Utley had a good offseason and should be back in form this year with the bats.
I'm not worried about their offense.
Let's see what Werth does in DC.
Cliff lee....09-10 seasons combined
wins-26
loses-22
era- 3.20
er- 158
hr- 33
hb- 6
bb- 61
whip- 1.12
go/ao- 0.90
adam wainwright...09-10 seasons combined
wins- 39
loses- 19
era- 2.52
er-130
hr- 32
hb- 7
bb-122
whip- 1.13
go/ao- 1.56
Chris Carpenter...09-10 seasons combined
wins-33
loses-13
era- 2.73
er- 132
hr- 28
hb- 20
bb- 101
whip- 1.08
with the exception of win/loss total the rest looks pretty similer to me....granted cliff lee has been well traveled the last 2 years and that sometimes makes it hard for them to settle down a bit but over all, they all look pretty even.
Again, it's fine that you're comparing the best two Cardinal's pitchers to what could be the Phillie's 2-4 pitcher.
Let's compare the Cardinals 3 and 4 pitchers to Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt, guessing that the rotation will be Roy, Cole, Cliff, Roy.
Let's compare the Cardinals 3 and 4 pitchers to Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt, guessing that the rotation will be Roy, Cole, Cliff, Roy.
i dont know what those numbers are...but here...ill break it down for ya:
Cliff lee....09-10 seasons combined
wins-26
loses-22
era- 3.20
er- 158
hr- 33
hb- 6
bb- 61
whip- 1.12
go/ao- 0.90
adam wainwright...09-10 seasons combined
wins- 39
loses- 19
era- 2.52
er-130
hr- 32
hb- 7
bb-122
whip- 1.13
go/ao- 1.56
Chris Carpenter...09-10 seasons combined
wins-33
loses-13
era- 2.73
er- 132
hr- 28
hb- 20
bb- 101
whip- 1.08
with the exception of win/loss total the rest looks pretty similer to me....granted cliff lee has been well traveled the last 2 years and that sometimes makes it hard for them to settle down a bit but over all, they all look pretty even.
Cliff lee....09-10 seasons combined
wins-26
loses-22
era- 3.20
er- 158
hr- 33
hb- 6
bb- 61
whip- 1.12
go/ao- 0.90
adam wainwright...09-10 seasons combined
wins- 39
loses- 19
era- 2.52
er-130
hr- 32
hb- 7
bb-122
whip- 1.13
go/ao- 1.56
Chris Carpenter...09-10 seasons combined
wins-33
loses-13
era- 2.73
er- 132
hr- 28
hb- 20
bb- 101
whip- 1.08
with the exception of win/loss total the rest looks pretty similer to me....granted cliff lee has been well traveled the last 2 years and that sometimes makes it hard for them to settle down a bit but over all, they all look pretty even.
WAR = wins above replacement. General stat used to compare players.
If you want to be more simple, thats fine. Those #'s you just posted are not "pretty similer" at all. Era of 3.20 compared to 2.52 and 2.73. All while putting in more innings.
FACT - Wainwright and Carpenter are better pitchers than Lee.
