FI and reliability of "kits" on otherwise stock engine? Magnacharger in particular
10-20-2008, 06:33 PM
#21
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Im not sure if there has been any back to back testing but id assume that a maggie setup at 5-6 psi with a medium sized blower cam would be more reliable than say the maggie at 8psi as there would be less stress on the engine components. The stress thats usually associated with a cam is on your valvesprings and rods/pistons, but thats a lot more evident when you are NA with a large cam with a lot of lift that you have to rev to 6800+ RPMS to make the most of its powerband. If you have a conservative blower cam again in the 22x/22x range then you wont have to rev the car to the moon to make power, it will just complement the powerband with the maggie IMO. The TR blower cam is a good choice as it should give great idle quality while providing power throught the RPM range. Id say with that cam and a maggie at 6psi and a good tune you would be in the 450+ rwhp range. As for track times I think they would be limited due to lack of traction and the fact that your an M6, however at those power levels you should be able to get into the 11's.
I'm looking for all the advice and pointers anyone can give in making this a reliable setup.
Some of the other things I've considered are 160 degree stat, ported oil-pump, ractronix pump, boost and fuel pressure gauge and new timing chain.
While running less boost like I plan, is it as important to monitor IAT?
10-20-2008, 10:03 PM
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Awesome! Thanks for all the answers! As I read more and more of this thread I'm building the shopping list.
I'm looking for all the advice and pointers anyone can give in making this a reliable setup.
Some of the other things I've considered are 160 degree stat, ported oil-pump, ractronix pump, boost and fuel pressure gauge and new timing chain.
While running less boost like I plan, is it as important to monitor IAT?
I'm looking for all the advice and pointers anyone can give in making this a reliable setup.
Some of the other things I've considered are 160 degree stat, ported oil-pump, ractronix pump, boost and fuel pressure gauge and new timing chain.
While running less boost like I plan, is it as important to monitor IAT?
IAT's need to remain within 15-20 degrees of ambient. The PCM will pull timing with IAT's over 104 degrees. At IAT's of 140+ the PCM will pul 5-7 degrees of timing, which will greatly reduce HP. You can program around this, but it increases the chance of detonation, which is bad on a FI engine. The LMR Maggie setup has an air to water intercooler. It will keep the IAT's within check. For a centrifugal blower or turbo in the boost range you're discussing, a air to air FMIC or meth injection will be sufficient. I prefer the intercooler personally cause it's working 24/7 without user maintenance.
10-20-2008, 10:57 PM
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Yes it is. Though you attacked my last advice, I'll give you one more tidbit of info......
IAT's need to remain within 15-20 degrees of ambient. The PCM will pull timing with IAT's over 104 degrees. At IAT's of 140+ the PCM will pul 5-7 degrees of timing, which will greatly reduce HP. You can program around this, but it increases the chance of detonation, which is bad on a FI engine. The LMR Maggie setup has an air to water intercooler. It will keep the IAT's within check. For a centrifugal blower or turbo in the boost range you're discussing, a air to air FMIC or meth injection will be sufficient. I prefer the intercooler personally cause it's working 24/7 without user maintenance.
IAT's need to remain within 15-20 degrees of ambient. The PCM will pull timing with IAT's over 104 degrees. At IAT's of 140+ the PCM will pul 5-7 degrees of timing, which will greatly reduce HP. You can program around this, but it increases the chance of detonation, which is bad on a FI engine. The LMR Maggie setup has an air to water intercooler. It will keep the IAT's within check. For a centrifugal blower or turbo in the boost range you're discussing, a air to air FMIC or meth injection will be sufficient. I prefer the intercooler personally cause it's working 24/7 without user maintenance.
10-21-2008, 02:45 AM
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I have been running my maggie setup for over 2k miles now as my daily driver and have had no issues, my IAT is in the manifold towards the rear of the blower, and has been used for tuning that way. The downside of the maggie kit, is that requires an SD tune that some tuners won't do. Upgrading your valvesprings, and upper vavletrain is a good idea while you have it apart. My cam is a blower cam from Comp Cams, listed as SC-3 from Speed Inc. Specs are 226/234 .598/.599 on a 117LSA, it's mild enough to not lope, but with heads, cam, longtube Kooks, and the maggie it put 545rwhp/550rwtq on the dyno. It's not that hard to drive it with 500+hp on tap, just keep your foot out of the gas, but it's there when you wanna get around someone in a hurry, and the whine takes people by surprise, especially the Cobras.
The pulley size for 5-6 psi is what the kit regularly comes with, but it can be changed to get more boost, although Ed will tell you not to run more than 7 on a stock block. The blower makes boost, but there is a bypass valve that prevents it from always making boost under normal driving conditions, at regular cruise I see 15-20" vacuum on the guage and only when I push the pedal hard does it make boost. If I roll into the throttle the engine revs, but does not get into boost, only when I stomp it, or get on the throttle hard, does it make boost, which aides in being able to drive it every day with no issues; especially since I live on a military base, no chance of getting on the throttle hard very often
The pulley size for 5-6 psi is what the kit regularly comes with, but it can be changed to get more boost, although Ed will tell you not to run more than 7 on a stock block. The blower makes boost, but there is a bypass valve that prevents it from always making boost under normal driving conditions, at regular cruise I see 15-20" vacuum on the guage and only when I push the pedal hard does it make boost. If I roll into the throttle the engine revs, but does not get into boost, only when I stomp it, or get on the throttle hard, does it make boost, which aides in being able to drive it every day with no issues; especially since I live on a military base, no chance of getting on the throttle hard very often
10-21-2008, 03:30 AM
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I have been running my maggie setup for over 2k miles now as my daily driver and have had no issues, my IAT is in the manifold towards the rear of the blower, and has been used for tuning that way. The downside of the maggie kit, is that requires an SD tune that some tuners won't do. Upgrading your valvesprings, and upper vavletrain is a good idea while you have it apart. My cam is a blower cam from Comp Cams, listed as SC-3 from Speed Inc. Specs are 226/234 .598/.599 on a 117LSA, it's mild enough to not lope, but with heads, cam, longtube Kooks, and the maggie it put 545rwhp/550rwtq on the dyno. It's not that hard to drive it with 500+hp on tap, just keep your foot out of the gas, but it's there when you wanna get around someone in a hurry, and the whine takes people by surprise, especially the Cobras.
The pulley size for 5-6 psi is what the kit regularly comes with, but it can be changed to get more boost, although Ed will tell you not to run more than 7 on a stock block. The blower makes boost, but there is a bypass valve that prevents it from always making boost under normal driving conditions, at regular cruise I see 15-20" vacuum on the guage and only when I push the pedal hard does it make boost. If I roll into the throttle the engine revs, but does not get into boost, only when I stomp it, or get on the throttle hard, does it make boost, which aides in being able to drive it every day with no issues; especially since I live on a military base, no chance of getting on the throttle hard very often
The pulley size for 5-6 psi is what the kit regularly comes with, but it can be changed to get more boost, although Ed will tell you not to run more than 7 on a stock block. The blower makes boost, but there is a bypass valve that prevents it from always making boost under normal driving conditions, at regular cruise I see 15-20" vacuum on the guage and only when I push the pedal hard does it make boost. If I roll into the throttle the engine revs, but does not get into boost, only when I stomp it, or get on the throttle hard, does it make boost, which aides in being able to drive it every day with no issues; especially since I live on a military base, no chance of getting on the throttle hard very often
I've never heard of this valve on the Maggie you're talking about, almost like a reverse wastegate that only gives boost at WOT. I was wondering about something like that, not everyone wants maximum torque at such low RPM's all the time. Good thing you mentioned that.
I have been unable to get in touch with my tuner and ask him about speed density unfortunately (RMCR). These guys have turned out 1200 HP TT vettes, 800 HP LS1 builds along with TT and sprayed LT1's. I would think they're familiar with speed density.
I know about driving on military bases, don't really get over 30 very much.
OT: BTW farmdawg, I'm in Iraq myself (Baghdad and Sadr City) and will be redeploying very soon, just got a fat 22k tax free re-up bonus and have saved a good bit over here. That's where this build will be coming from.
10-21-2008, 10:53 AM
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Can you give me a quick explanation of why you need an SD tune because for as many people as I've talked to with magnachargers, this is the first I've heard that.
10-21-2008, 03:08 PM
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Really? Sorry, I'm pretty new to this, but if what you say is true, I think I need a new tune....that might explain why my power is down.
Can you give me a quick explanation of why you need an SD tune because for as many people as I've talked to with magnachargers, this is the first I've heard that.[/QUOTE]
the SD tune is for the fbody guys with a maggie as the maf wont fit in between the intake and the throttle body.
Can you give me a quick explanation of why you need an SD tune because for as many people as I've talked to with magnachargers, this is the first I've heard that.[/QUOTE]
the SD tune is for the fbody guys with a maggie as the maf wont fit in between the intake and the throttle body.
10-24-2008, 06:19 PM
#31
I was thinking about a roots type supercharger for a 403 LS2. I noticed guys talking about a 22x/22x cam for use with it. Would'nt something like a
206 XFI/240XER be better suited for 10-12 PSI? Most are biasing about 4-6 deg on NA motors, I was thinking it would be even more necessary on a boost motor?
206 XFI/240XER be better suited for 10-12 PSI? Most are biasing about 4-6 deg on NA motors, I was thinking it would be even more necessary on a boost motor?
10-24-2008, 06:32 PM
#32
The kit comes with the right pulley, the right injectors, a fuel pump... no thinking involved! It works.
You can break stuff even with a stock engine, try a few 1/4 miles with slicks and the stock rear end... But for fun daily driving, that Magnacharger kit will put a smile on your face each time you drive to work and you will not break anything.
10-25-2008, 11:19 AM
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Buy a complete Magnacharger kit for your engine, it is easy to install, comes with a basic tuning tool and is absolutely reliable: some people have such kits on their work trucks and pull heavy stuff for many thousands of miles and the engine lives as if stock, except faster.
The kit comes with the right pulley, the right injectors, a fuel pump... no thinking involved! It works.
You can break stuff even with a stock engine, try a few 1/4 miles with slicks and the stock rear end... But for fun daily driving, that Magnacharger kit will put a smile on your face each time you drive to work and you will not break anything.
The kit comes with the right pulley, the right injectors, a fuel pump... no thinking involved! It works.
You can break stuff even with a stock engine, try a few 1/4 miles with slicks and the stock rear end... But for fun daily driving, that Magnacharger kit will put a smile on your face each time you drive to work and you will not break anything.
I was doing some more research over on another LS1/2 forum and the guys over there really love them on their GTO's. I think it's going to be awhile before the F-body crowd really gets into them a bit more, but they're running all sorts of different configurations on the stock short block. Everything inbetween 5 and 10 lbs. of boost and they're holding together on low and high mileage cars. I really only found one failure and that was one where this dude added a shot of nitrous on top of the blower. But even I can see where trying to double your engines factory output with stock parts could be a problem. Others ran into some drivetrain problems after getting traction but that's a no brainer as well. Also just like here, they emphasized tuning, tuning, and more tuning which I'm confident in the guys at RMCR in Colorado Springs.
I'm still going to go with a cam and valvetrain upgrade along with some other things while they're in there though. Nothing wrong with some insurance and the TA has a few miles on her. I'm going to tackle the racetronxi, valvesprings, and pushrods myself, so should be fun.
Should be getting this stuff soon. I'll keep everyone posted, show off the parts and give my thoughts on the build.
