HELP! turbo setup sucks
12-22-2008 | 09:19 PM
#61
no offense meant but you seem a little impatient. Something is definitely wrong with your setup. The headers and crossover pipe should be fine to get you to the 9s....even the 3" dp will get you 9s. That combo might not support 8s but definitely should do 9s. The gear is FOR SURE wrong....3.08 - 3.55 is where you should be.
12-22-2008 | 09:43 PM
#62
Yes well we all know a 76GTS or a PT88 car can go 8s... but a 408... Is too big to use the full potential of the turbo it can work... but a motor like a 370 would have less backpressure than a larger 408, therefore the pressure ratio is more on the turbos efficiency range, instead of its choke point, less heat is introduced into the charge air, and the turbo just functions better...
unfortunately my 3" dp goes all the way to the turbine outlet... clamped directly to it... its probably killing me about 100 hp... and to boot, my water pump on my intercooler had taken a ****, so my intake temps were probably about 200F when I hit 175 F on the dyno I ended up with only 4 degrees of advance and lost 75 horse just because we were hot pulling it and the water got too hot, so yeah I know I can fix my intercooler, remount the heat exchanger away from the radiator, get a bigger downpipe, turn up the boost, use race gas, use my methanol injection blah blah blah.. would probably make 900 rwhp at 20 psi on a dyno.....BUT to me and how much I spent, and the parts I got that were fucked up from pro turbo kits that made me HAVE to downsize turbos etc etc I think that would stilll even suck..
I want to make the most of the motor I have... not bandaid what can be bandaided I've spent 70,000 on parts and im slower than when I was cam only with a 100 shot... I've been wanting to be the world's fastest 6 speed f body, and im so far off its not even funny the PT88 will not get me there no matter what with a 6 speed, once I can take that record, ill go ahead and put a powerglide in the thing.
As you can see I've got ALOT of room for a monster turbo..... why not use it?
I think Im going to settle on an S91 and 1 3/4 headers, with 3" collectors and crossover, a t6 flange and about 14" of 5" downpipe/dumptube. that should do me right. but would those be the right sized headers? and what do I need for charge pipe to make the most of it. Im building the kit myself this time, and if it kicks as, Ill make copies of it for sale.
unfortunately my 3" dp goes all the way to the turbine outlet... clamped directly to it... its probably killing me about 100 hp... and to boot, my water pump on my intercooler had taken a ****, so my intake temps were probably about 200F when I hit 175 F on the dyno I ended up with only 4 degrees of advance and lost 75 horse just because we were hot pulling it and the water got too hot, so yeah I know I can fix my intercooler, remount the heat exchanger away from the radiator, get a bigger downpipe, turn up the boost, use race gas, use my methanol injection blah blah blah.. would probably make 900 rwhp at 20 psi on a dyno.....BUT to me and how much I spent, and the parts I got that were fucked up from pro turbo kits that made me HAVE to downsize turbos etc etc I think that would stilll even suck..
I want to make the most of the motor I have... not bandaid what can be bandaided I've spent 70,000 on parts and im slower than when I was cam only with a 100 shot... I've been wanting to be the world's fastest 6 speed f body, and im so far off its not even funny the PT88 will not get me there no matter what with a 6 speed, once I can take that record, ill go ahead and put a powerglide in the thing.
As you can see I've got ALOT of room for a monster turbo..... why not use it?
I think Im going to settle on an S91 and 1 3/4 headers, with 3" collectors and crossover, a t6 flange and about 14" of 5" downpipe/dumptube. that should do me right. but would those be the right sized headers? and what do I need for charge pipe to make the most of it. Im building the kit myself this time, and if it kicks as, Ill make copies of it for sale.
If you truly spent $70,000 on your setup to be the "worlds fastest" 6 speed, then you should of went ahead and spent another 5grand and got a LSX 6bolt block and a set of 6 bolt heads. Your not going to make more than a 1000rwhp before pushing water and my friend that is not going to get you no world record! By looking at your last pic, you have alot of room in the engine bay.Upgrade your charge pipe to a 3or 4in. as well. If you would just listen to the people in this thread, you will get all your problems solved, and be running and making alot of power. There are people here that are running your turbo and making alot of power. The 408 is not to big. Your 3in. down pipe is killing you, and if you truly are running a 4.30 gear on a turbo car, you need to get that changed out to a 3.0-3.50 like others have said.The taller gear will put a load on the car! This isn't a mustang setup!You asked for our help, and if you will just listen you will get it fixed and running properly. WHen you get it running look me up! I will gladly run you 6 speed for 6 speed! Sorry to rant, but you seem like you could careless that everybody is trying to help you. The majority that are helping you have been thru your problems!You asked for our help, we are trying to help, if you will just listen!
12-22-2008 | 10:54 PM
#64
Problem experienced is people are giving good advice, though most of the time it is not taken.
A 408 and PT88 with a 4" DP will make the power neaded to go 5's in the 8th and easy 9's in the 1/4.
If he wants to scrap is current setup its his choice. I dont see the need but I wont try to talk him out of it. Its his $$$$$$.
Not to be a dick, but I bet we will see a future thread about why a 370 with a Large frame PT91 wont runa number or make XXX rwhp. Its what makes LS1Tech fun.
A 408 and PT88 with a 4" DP will make the power neaded to go 5's in the 8th and easy 9's in the 1/4.
If he wants to scrap is current setup its his choice. I dont see the need but I wont try to talk him out of it. Its his $$$$$$.
Not to be a dick, but I bet we will see a future thread about why a 370 with a Large frame PT91 wont runa number or make XXX rwhp. Its what makes LS1Tech fun.
12-23-2008 | 12:20 AM
#65
I would take peoples advice....... if my ultimate goal was a pedestrian 900 rwhp 9 second car
but that was NEVER my goal.
Ive been running a 3.42 gear...btw the car did make 557 rwhp @ 10 psi on a mustang dyno, I could do a bunch of things to make 900 rwhp at 20 psi, but to me that's nothing impressive. not to say people arent giving good advice, but I wanted the kit I have been describing the entire thread in the first place. Thats what PTK had promised me, and instead they took my money, sent me 1/2 of their regular base pile of crap "Race" kit for a 76GTS and basically ripped me off before going out of buisness. What I did put together, was something that would just get me running in the mean time I know it sucks, and I know there is Tons of improvement left in it.. just not enough to make me happy.
YES I REALIZE A PT88 will work ok on a 408, but is it the OPTIMAL turbo to have? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
in my opinion I would be "throwing away money" to spend all my time getting the car all scienced out and running 9.xs with it to still want to grow and move on to a bigger kit anyway
What I was basically asking in the first place is my kit sucks, I dont even want to waste my time to make it right.
I want to build a new kit, with a turbo that would be the Optimal turbo for my car and I was wondering what would be the best header dimensions crossover dimensions etc etc thats all
but that was NEVER my goal.
Ive been running a 3.42 gear...btw the car did make 557 rwhp @ 10 psi on a mustang dyno, I could do a bunch of things to make 900 rwhp at 20 psi, but to me that's nothing impressive. not to say people arent giving good advice, but I wanted the kit I have been describing the entire thread in the first place. Thats what PTK had promised me, and instead they took my money, sent me 1/2 of their regular base pile of crap "Race" kit for a 76GTS and basically ripped me off before going out of buisness. What I did put together, was something that would just get me running in the mean time I know it sucks, and I know there is Tons of improvement left in it.. just not enough to make me happy.
YES I REALIZE A PT88 will work ok on a 408, but is it the OPTIMAL turbo to have? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
in my opinion I would be "throwing away money" to spend all my time getting the car all scienced out and running 9.xs with it to still want to grow and move on to a bigger kit anyway
What I was basically asking in the first place is my kit sucks, I dont even want to waste my time to make it right.
I want to build a new kit, with a turbo that would be the Optimal turbo for my car and I was wondering what would be the best header dimensions crossover dimensions etc etc thats all
Last edited by z28boysteve; 12-23-2008 at 12:57 AM.
12-23-2008 | 01:13 AM
#66
Steve, you’re right on track. An 88 mm turbo will only provide 55 to 60 pounds of air per minute. If you want more power, turn up the boost. The T4 flange may bite you in the *** with the exhaust back pressure. Once the back pressure exceeds the boost you’re going to loose 11 hp for every psi above manifold pressure. You’re going to need a T6 turbine housing, 3”hot side pipes and 4 to 4 ½ cold sit pipes. The downpipe will need to be 3 ½ to 4” Sent me pictures, George
12-23-2008 | 02:25 AM
#67
Steve, you’re right on track. An 88 mm turbo will only provide 55 to 60 pounds of air per minute. If you want more power, turn up the boost. The T4 flange may bite you in the *** with the exhaust back pressure. Once the back pressure exceeds the boost you’re going to loose 11 hp for every psi above manifold pressure. You’re going to need a T6 turbine housing, 3”hot side pipes and 4 to 4 ½ cold sit pipes. The downpipe will need to be 3 ½ to 4” Sent me pictures, George
12-23-2008 | 02:33 AM
#68
unfortunately my 3" dp goes all the way to the turbine outlet... clamped directly to it... its probably killing me about 100 hp...
and to boot, my water pump on my intercooler had taken a ****, so my intake temps were probably about 200F when I hit 175 F on the dyno I ended up with only 4 degrees of advance and lost 75 horse just because we were hot pulling it and the water got too hot
I think Im going to settle on an S91 and 1 3/4 headers, with 3" collectors and crossover, a t6 flange and about 14" of 5" downpipe/dumptube. that should do me right. but would those be the right sized headers? and what do I need for charge pipe to make the most of it.
Im building the kit myself this time, and if it kicks as, Ill make copies of it for sale.
12-23-2008 | 07:19 AM
#70
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
What I was basically asking in the first place is my kit sucks, I dont even want to waste my time to make it right.
I want to build a new kit, with a turbo that would be the Optimal turbo for my car and I was wondering what would be the best header dimensions crossover dimensions etc etc thats all
I want to build a new kit, with a turbo that would be the Optimal turbo for my car and I was wondering what would be the best header dimensions crossover dimensions etc etc thats all
BTW, the PT88 is good for solid 8's, not "just" 9's.
12-23-2008 | 08:02 AM
#71
12-23-2008 | 08:09 AM
#72
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
12-23-2008 | 08:53 AM
#73
all Ive been saying is if an 88 is good for 900 rear wheel, an M6 car wont run 8s... or at least I don't forsee it happening at 3800 lbs its probably possible, but I can do so much better with a new kit, so why dont i just make it happen?
12-23-2008 | 09:11 AM
#74
Truck manifolds, 4" down pipe, 4" cold side, 55-91 or 55-94 a2w and there you have it 1200-1300whp. Now you can run easy 8's on a 6 speed with the best of the best suspension tuning and parts.
12-23-2008 | 09:27 AM
#75
to me it seems like all he has to do is tops fab up new collector sides and def make a bigger down pipe and then make a new cold side if there is a problem with its small size.
seems like a weekend to me(assuming he has the piping).
seems like a weekend to me(assuming he has the piping).
12-23-2008 | 09:36 AM
#76
You need to get your priorities right. First of all, get it running, tuned right, and maxing out the 88. Then you need to put the car on a diet. "Fastest M6" and 3800#s is an oxymoron.
12-23-2008 | 10:01 AM
#77
So now you say a "PEDESTRIAN 900RWHP"!! WTF! You havn't even made that yet. You may have a goal of being the worlds fastest 6 speed, but that is all you have! You will never make your goal with your 408 motor you have!
You will be limited by pushing water. You obviusly havn't thought this out, or did research on any of this. Its alway's easier to work with what you have and get it fixed ,then go from there. But I still say your biggest hold up will be the motor. You WILL push water. And to be the fastest, you will need
12-1300rwhp with a 6 speed, and you will not get that without pushing water!
You will be limited by pushing water. You obviusly havn't thought this out, or did research on any of this. Its alway's easier to work with what you have and get it fixed ,then go from there. But I still say your biggest hold up will be the motor. You WILL push water. And to be the fastest, you will need
12-1300rwhp with a 6 speed, and you will not get that without pushing water!
12-23-2008 | 10:08 AM
#79
To give you an idea on a setup! Here is my new setup.
427LSX Motor with ETP 265cc 6 Bolt Heads. EZ94mm Billet Turbo,
Tick Performance 6 Speed. I am looking for 12-1300RWHP.
I will have appx. $25,000 invested in the Whole project!!
I am not going for any records, but you would need something similar in size to get your world record 6 speed!
427LSX Motor with ETP 265cc 6 Bolt Heads. EZ94mm Billet Turbo,
Tick Performance 6 Speed. I am looking for 12-1300RWHP.
I will have appx. $25,000 invested in the Whole project!!
I am not going for any records, but you would need something similar in size to get your world record 6 speed!
12-23-2008 | 10:09 AM
#80
