Lets Build a MONSTER TRUCK engine....
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
I need to investigate how much cooling Im going to need. Even though it will be a methanol engine, I could see as long as 5min run times. The average run time is 2 minutes in freestyle, but it all depends on the promotion company, how the show goes, and how I am feeling that night, and how long I can manage to keep it shiny side up! Everything about the truck I m designing is thinking completely out of the box... there is nothing conventional about it and I really appreciate you guy's taking the time to put input on this!
Also, I am listening to all of these post with open ears! I live in Texas and Im spending the Holidays in Houston so I may call up the school of Automotive machinist and see if I cant go take a tour and run some ideas past a few people. I would LOVE to actually go to that school, but I just dont have 30K to drop on it sitting around, and I kinda need to finish my RTVF degree first.
Also, I am listening to all of these post with open ears! I live in Texas and Im spending the Holidays in Houston so I may call up the school of Automotive machinist and see if I cant go take a tour and run some ideas past a few people. I would LOVE to actually go to that school, but I just dont have 30K to drop on it sitting around, and I kinda need to finish my RTVF degree first.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
first of all i would go with a twin turbo setup, and heavywall logs and correctly speced turbos will keep spool-up time very very low... lag is a term that refers to what rpm you can expect full boost, spool up is the time it takes to get boost when flooring the throttle when within the max boost zone of the maps... a set of logs like below
its what jeff schwartz puts on the ultimas he builds.. (he is the biggest turbo lsx enginebuilder in the US if you count number of engines produced in 2008) give him a call http://www.schwartzperformance.com/products.aspx
i would stick to the lsx block if you plan on going above 1200 Hp.. but choosing durability over weight in a truck that is allready 8500 lbs isnt a dumb move....
also for sheer acuracy its hard to beat a tec3 but the software is alittle cluncky to work with.. but nelson racing engines swears by it... they would be my second recomendation (www.nelsonracingengines.com) .. but thet do sure sell some expensive engines.... ;-(
its what jeff schwartz puts on the ultimas he builds.. (he is the biggest turbo lsx enginebuilder in the US if you count number of engines produced in 2008) give him a call http://www.schwartzperformance.com/products.aspx
i would stick to the lsx block if you plan on going above 1200 Hp.. but choosing durability over weight in a truck that is allready 8500 lbs isnt a dumb move....
also for sheer acuracy its hard to beat a tec3 but the software is alittle cluncky to work with.. but nelson racing engines swears by it... they would be my second recomendation (www.nelsonracingengines.com) .. but thet do sure sell some expensive engines.... ;-(
10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
I guess I'd have to see it to believe it but I think there is a good reason there are no turbo monster trucks. These guys need the kind of throttle response to control wheelies across the whole power band. They idle up to obstacles and then nail it and it and shoot over the jump. I just don't see how it would work well no matter how well the turbo is sized. Yea maybe on those races where they go around a couple laps as fast as possible but not for the freestyle. Anyone agree with this?
I would think you'd want the EXACT same power on tap EVERY time at any given RPM or load since so many of the good tricks AND saves seem to be attributed to the driver's timing based on the knowledge of exactly how the truck will react , but what the hell do I know? Pretty cool you're considering an LSx for a monster truck though 
. Good luck 
.
. Good luck . Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
I guess I'd have to see it to believe it but I think there is a good reason there are no turbo monster trucks. These guys need the kind of throttle response to control wheelies across the whole power band. They idle up to obstacles and then nail it and it and shoot over the jump. I just don't see how it would work well no matter how well the turbo is sized. Yea maybe on those races where they go around a couple laps as fast as possible but not for the freestyle. Anyone agree with this?
My real issue is that these rules have stuck even as technology has advanced, and there is now no reason to run the engines like we do...Even if we could run a 1071 or a 1471 I would be happier, but the engines in these things cost and arm and a leg and are constantly running on the ragged edge because of the technology limitations. We have proven that 1500hp in a 10klb truck is the limit of our drive trains, so everyone sticks roughly in that range for HP, but there is a BETTER more reliable way to make 1500hp... and Im taking it one step farther... Im taking the weight of the truck down and the HP down and hoping to produce one of the most consistent trucks out there.
The real issue with how our engines are currently built is that we are not allowed to let the blower do the work... we are limited at 10% OD and 10% out of an 871 is next to nothing, so we have to build these ridiculous engines to make up the difference in HP. What Im trying to do is open some eyes... An EFI small block with turbo's is just about as eye opening as it gets in this sport... I could put a blower on it, and I could do all sorts of other combinations, but I want to show what can be done when you open your eyes to progress and technology...
Also there is more than one way to drive a truck... Im shooting to turn some heads here so Im sure everything will be unique including how I will drive it.
This is the future of monster trucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAnTifsc-8A
With that weight and the time of your events you are definately looking at 6 bolts to keep the heads down.
Good luck - I'd personally use an available procharger system on something like this. Would seem to be easier, but TT's would definately be unique if they are small enough for quick spool time.
Good luck - I'd personally use an available procharger system on something like this. Would seem to be easier, but TT's would definately be unique if they are small enough for quick spool time.
don't let these guys get you down, most of them have likely never driven a heavy truck with turbos that are specd for response and not top end HP. I'd almost bet that a pair of the right turbos with the correct drivetrain combo will make more bottom end than a blower can. Blowers are linear to crank speed, turbos aren't, and that is the whole key to this deal. Good luck.
10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
The reason we run the 8-71 blowers (10% OD limit) and mechanical fuel injection is basically because in the early 90s the "MTRA" decided that they needed to limit the power potential of the trucks... That was back when racing was the primary focus of the monster truck world, now it's freestyle.
My real issue is that these rules have stuck even as technology has advanced, and there is now no reason to run the engines like we do...Even if we could run a 1071 or a 1471 I would be happier, but the engines in these things cost and arm and a leg and are constantly running on the ragged edge because of the technology limitations. We have proven that 1500hp in a 10klb truck is the limit of our drive trains, so everyone sticks roughly in that range for HP, but there is a BETTER more reliable way to make 1500hp... and Im taking it one step farther... Im taking the weight of the truck down and the HP down and hoping to produce one of the most consistent trucks out there.
The real issue with how our engines are currently built is that we are not allowed to let the blower do the work... we are limited at 10% OD and 10% out of an 871 is next to nothing, so we have to build these ridiculous engines to make up the difference in HP. What Im trying to do is open some eyes... An EFI small block with turbo's is just about as eye opening as it gets in this sport... I could put a blower on it, and I could do all sorts of other combinations, but I want to show what can be done when you open your eyes to progress and technology...
Also there is more than one way to drive a truck... Im shooting to turn some heads here so Im sure everything will be unique including how I will drive it.
This is the future of monster trucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAnTifsc-8A
My real issue is that these rules have stuck even as technology has advanced, and there is now no reason to run the engines like we do...Even if we could run a 1071 or a 1471 I would be happier, but the engines in these things cost and arm and a leg and are constantly running on the ragged edge because of the technology limitations. We have proven that 1500hp in a 10klb truck is the limit of our drive trains, so everyone sticks roughly in that range for HP, but there is a BETTER more reliable way to make 1500hp... and Im taking it one step farther... Im taking the weight of the truck down and the HP down and hoping to produce one of the most consistent trucks out there.
The real issue with how our engines are currently built is that we are not allowed to let the blower do the work... we are limited at 10% OD and 10% out of an 871 is next to nothing, so we have to build these ridiculous engines to make up the difference in HP. What Im trying to do is open some eyes... An EFI small block with turbo's is just about as eye opening as it gets in this sport... I could put a blower on it, and I could do all sorts of other combinations, but I want to show what can be done when you open your eyes to progress and technology...
Also there is more than one way to drive a truck... Im shooting to turn some heads here so Im sure everything will be unique including how I will drive it.
This is the future of monster trucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAnTifsc-8A
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if you cant get 1200 fwhp with a single gt 47 -88 and a 14-1 motor you need jesus. world makes a aluminum warhawk block. i would go all warhawk 14-1 comp with a gt 47-88. spool would not be an issue with methanol and high compression.
That will depend on the size motor he chooses, the 47-88 exhaust side does not flow very well. Putting it on a large cube, methanol, high compression motor and trying to get 1200+ hp will be pushing the backpressure through the roof.
http://www.worldcastings.com/ls7x_story.htm
i would use this block with a dry sump system.
http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_p...arhawkls7x.htm
i would use these heads with a sheet metal intake. they are designed to work together and they make good parts. you could run a pretty normalish cam with off the shelf valve train parts for reliability and ease of repair. a simple gt 47-88 would do the trick. i wouldnt go with anything to crazy once again for ease of repair and ability to find parts, get it rebuilt quickly. plus 1400 whp has been made with a low compression 3.4 liter. so its more than enough turbo. plus a 427 with 14 - 1 compression on meth would spool it EASY and make that hp range without pushing the turbo. coat all the hotside parts and i would still run an ic. for one if you lose the turbo, parts wont go into the motor and kill the motor, plus if your gonna run it for five minutes it wouldn t be a bad idea. run an oil cooler and a good cooling system and it should run like a champ no problem at the power range or more.
i would use this block with a dry sump system.
http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_p...arhawkls7x.htm
i would use these heads with a sheet metal intake. they are designed to work together and they make good parts. you could run a pretty normalish cam with off the shelf valve train parts for reliability and ease of repair. a simple gt 47-88 would do the trick. i wouldnt go with anything to crazy once again for ease of repair and ability to find parts, get it rebuilt quickly. plus 1400 whp has been made with a low compression 3.4 liter. so its more than enough turbo. plus a 427 with 14 - 1 compression on meth would spool it EASY and make that hp range without pushing the turbo. coat all the hotside parts and i would still run an ic. for one if you lose the turbo, parts wont go into the motor and kill the motor, plus if your gonna run it for five minutes it wouldn t be a bad idea. run an oil cooler and a good cooling system and it should run like a champ no problem at the power range or more.
big a/r and twin wastegates. really a 408 would be enough at that compression level. or bump it up to a gt50-88 so your not too big
I wonder if the BS3 computer (or any computer for that matter) will last through all the big jumps and vibrations and such. Most electronics don't like the kind of abuse shown in that clip of Taz.
My uncle is a crew cheif for a trophy truck team, and I know he has trouble even with simple ignition boxes (they always run 2, so they can be switched when one fails). They run carb though, so I cant say as to an EFI computer
My uncle is a crew cheif for a trophy truck team, and I know he has trouble even with simple ignition boxes (they always run 2, so they can be switched when one fails). They run carb though, so I cant say as to an EFI computer
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
first of all i would go with a twin turbo setup, and heavywall logs and correctly speced turbos will keep spool-up time very very low... lag is a term that refers to what rpm you can expect full boost, spool up is the time it takes to get boost when flooring the throttle when within the max boost zone of the maps... a set of logs like below
its what jeff schwartz puts on the ultimas he builds.. (he is the biggest turbo lsx enginebuilder in the US if you count number of engines produced in 2008) give him a call http://www.schwartzperformance.com/products.aspx
i would stick to the lsx block if you plan on going above 1200 Hp.. but choosing durability over weight in a truck that is allready 8500 lbs isnt a dumb move....
also for sheer acuracy its hard to beat a tec3 but the software is alittle cluncky to work with.. but nelson racing engines swears by it... they would be my second recomendation (www.nelsonracingengines.com) .. but thet do sure sell some expensive engines.... ;-(
its what jeff schwartz puts on the ultimas he builds.. (he is the biggest turbo lsx enginebuilder in the US if you count number of engines produced in 2008) give him a call http://www.schwartzperformance.com/products.aspx
i would stick to the lsx block if you plan on going above 1200 Hp.. but choosing durability over weight in a truck that is allready 8500 lbs isnt a dumb move....
also for sheer acuracy its hard to beat a tec3 but the software is alittle cluncky to work with.. but nelson racing engines swears by it... they would be my second recomendation (www.nelsonracingengines.com) .. but thet do sure sell some expensive engines.... ;-(
Great ideas mate! forgot about Jeff's work and how well it could work for this aplication!
and how about something like this for the engine build. https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...lbs-today.html he is running 30psi and not pushing water!!!!!!
Chris.
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
I wish someone would do that in NASCAR. I'm tired of old tech SBC's, carb's, and flat tappet camshafts...
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
no need for that... just remove the restrictor plate.. the last year they ran unrestricted i believe the record at talladega was set ay 212mph on the straight..... with todays aerodunamics that would most likely be 220+ mph.. and allowing for more cubes the cars could be so fast that no one ever finished a race.... could we get back on track now??
my question is... if the rules dont allow turbos, or efi.... then why are we debating this??? i mean a dry sumped LSX with a schwartz top end running meth would be cool as hell... not to mention the sound!!!
but would you be allowed to run it??