bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

There is a guy on LS1.com selling a standard kit, still in the box never opened, for the low price of $4,400 (plus shipping).

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

That is decent price. The only real diff from the standard kit is the turbos are smaller rated at about 50 lbs minute each or around 1000 engine hp. And they have smaller inlets and can use stock starter. The bigger turbos are around 60 or 65 pounds a minute think it says on the aps site. the aps site is great you can check out the kits and even the manuals .free access and even talks about advantages of twin turbos over single etc. The kit is very high quality overall. The old kit will have the old inlets that suck shut at about 12psi. The new kit should have the new inlets.It could cost like 400 bucks shipped to get the upgraded inlets so keep that in mind on prices.

bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

Is the standard kit always going to have those older inlets?

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Not sure ,contact aps. they should have the new upgraded inlets on the kits now. The older kits for sure didn't have them. You can possibly stent the tubes open somehow think one guy used chicken wire! LOL I likely will just order the ugpraded ones but they are pretty pricey as they are shipped from australia.

bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

The guy told me today that he would take 4k even for his standard kit since I would have to get the new inlet tubes. He is also gonna throw in some stuff like some adjustable LCA's and a BMR torque arm. He has the BMR k-member to go with it, but they accidently sent him the wrong one so he would have to ship it back for the new one, or he would just knock off a little more from the price without it. What do you think, should I get it?

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

For the price that is hard to beat. You will need of course some big injectors maybe you already have them 60s minimum and 80s or so would be even better and pretty sure 80s can handle around 1000rwhp. And of course good fuel system like twin pump intank or big single with bigger lines and boost referenced reg and bigger rails. Or possibly big single pump system.
Aps has one that is nice but expensive I am going with lonnies dual intank shortly.Just have to take out my sender they have to modify it. Aps doesn't require sending in the sender for modification but aps costs more for less. Although you can do the aps in steps its two parts .guess you could do the lonnies one in two steps also.
Of course you need tuning and likely two to three bar. I am going three bar. 2 bar is good to about 15psi and 3 bar to 30psi. I plan on max 20psi but only if need to go that high.I ran maf temporarily but was staying out of boost pretty much. Standard spring pressure is 7.5psi approx.
Yeah you need bmr k member but some used other makes. There are lots of threads on here about about aps install and dynos and stuff.
Personally since I do have a 408 likely would have got the upgraded turbo kit. But it was not out when I got my kit .I should have sent away my smaller turbos unused to aps for the upgraded ones. But was thinking the smaller ones would be enough. They still might be but did get a dud turbo that was internally cracked and so ran only oil cooling not water cooling for a few weeks last fall before car went away after got it running.
I will be removing the turbos and getting new housing or upgraded housings not sure yet.

Definitely person wants new inlets or stent the existing ones so they don't suck shut at 12psi or so.

Other than some minor issues I am very happy with the kit. It fit good and is very well thought out. You get to keep your air. The manual is ver thorough you can see it on their website. They shipped every nut and bolt ,the kit is super complete minus the fuel system, tuning and k member. And ypipe if you stick to factory type exhaust. I used a hooker ceramic coated ypipe and it bolted right up. Kooks ypipe pretty sure also fits. I run an electric cutout in intermediate pipe. Might go true duals at some point down the road.

I have my front hotchkis sway bar off till modify things as the intercooler pipes can contact the front sway. Some spacers or possibly putting sections of silicone tubing where the sway bar would hit should work ok thats what some have done. Some guys have had some cooling problems in very hot places. You may want to go bigger ,better rad and possibly high flow water pump. Or evans setup maybe.Its not that hot where I live so see how that goes.

bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

So could I possibly just send in his smaller turbos back to APS for the bigger ones? Do you know what that would cost me? I would need the APS starter to clear the bigger turbos if I did that.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Did the guy run the turbos? If they were never installed then should be able to send them back for upgrade maybe for decent price diff. If they were installed doubt aps would exchange them. Maybe on mine since I got a dud turbo that could have wiped out my new 408. Lucky very lucky caught the problem of coolant into the oil in first few minutes of 408 start up. Hopefully no damage and oil was fine since blocked off the water cooling lines to the turbos just ran oil cooling for week or so.

Sorry you said you have single pump so you are ok for 7.5 I would think no problem.
Just have to monitor stuff on the scanner.

So yeah you should be able to run for awhile.I just have stock pump and lines and reg and rails with the 60s installed. Racetronix has some new 80s that look interesting. Plug and play and high impedence think get those this season. I may take boost up this year if have the rest of the stuff in there..Fuel system is main thing.

Also there are posts on here about guy upgrading the standard turbos thru forced performance. Check back for previous threads. And you can get replacement supposedly better center sections for pretty reasonable off ebay but those are still standard drop in size. The upgraded ones have 3 inch inlets , better inlet tubes already and do require that msd starter which is not too expensive was thinking to get it anyway for a bit morec clearance even with standard turbos.

On a 346 the standards should get you to 800rwhp auto and 850 rwhp on your m6. And you have that spray to get you to 1000rwhp and that is plenty ,plenty. That should get you 8s if you can hook. Maybe low 8s? How fast does guy need to go. I will be happy in the 10s hopefully low 10s thats plenty for a 99% street car.

That is only diff on the kits..different turbos on the upgraded kit. Still mits 20gs modified not garetts like some of the vette kits.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Yeah the starter is actually msd starter around 250 US? Called aps model or something though.

OneMean01

iTrader: (6)

I tried to trade APS my brand new smaller turbos for the newer bigger ones they told me no trades period. I would just have to buy the new bigger ones plus their starter bracket.

As for spool with my 402 and 10psi it hits 10# before 3000rpm. You talk about no traction, its a blast to drive on the street. You will get used to it quick not really that unpredictuble. When we built my exhaust i used doctor gas 3" oval piping, we had some leftover pipe and cut some 2 inch pieces in both intake ducts and put to clamps on each side of the pipe to make sure it didnt move works fine. I havent had any problems with them.

bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

No, he never installed the kit. He is going to pop open the box and send me some pics in the next day or two and I will post them up on here. I think I might just stick with the standard turbos, hoping they are not duds of course, and run my spray. I can just install this kit now and run at low boost on my Racetronix system until I can afford to go over 650rwhp. I can probably get better traction with lower boost, although the smaller ones do spool up a bit quicker. Can I keep the dry setup on the nitrous or will I have to upgrade that as well?

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Ok Onemean01 some good info. So did they give a price for the upgraded turbos ?didn't know a starter bracket was needed ? Wonder if its on the parts list for the upgraded kit have to check.

Yeah I think my spool up is similar on my 408. I would also think get full spool on the smaller turbos under 3000. Its a great powerband and really the upgraded ones are not needed. Since you have no collapsing issues now it sounds like any chance of you getting a high psi dyno to see just what these smaller snails can do max power wise on a 408 or 402. Maybe will just try that oval tube stenting trick and save some buck son upgraded inlet tubes.

Lg or Lm was doing the turbo upgrading sounding like for a couple thousand. Course the mits 20g turbos are like think 1000 each brand new. I am a little leary to get upgraded ones from APS as they did seem to have a high percentage of duds on these standard f body systems but couldn't find many with problems on the gto or corvette boards with the guys running same turbos exactly. Maybe they had a bad batch or something.
Mine could have wiped my 408. Pure luck really that we were closely monitoring the oil on 408 and turbo kit start up and seen the oil go pure milshake so shut it down instantly and change out oil like 5 times in 500 miles. Oil is crystal clear and since disconnected water cooling lines instantly . At first did think it was head gasket ,cracked head or cracked block but Epp has same problem on one aps I think. And it is annoying to change out the turbos after install. Drop kmember and pain in the butt. at least think have to drop kmember don't think any other way to get them out??

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Yes of course you can keep dry nitrous just that wet means you dont' have to worry about injector capacity for the spray on top of the needed turbo capacity.
I have wet single zex kit but might use it on my 96z vert and run zex direct port on my 99 ta. Of course the fast is simple to add direct port.
You should be able to get think around 600 maybe 650rwhp at 7.5psi or close.I would think I have around 650rwhp at 7.5psi on my engine but of course its a 408 not 346. But as said we have very similar mods with intake and afr 225s. Cam is not that different either in terms of lift.
I haven't really had any problems with my underdrive. Use alt overdrive pulley and stock alt. I have big stereo too. No problems that I have noticed.I have asp underdrive balancer.
For control I am running eboost2 and for scanning running interceptor gauges. Still need to install them. Have plx wideband installed. I have hptuners. Bought 3 bar sensors to switch to speed density. You could possibly run the maf to 650rwhp??? Not sure. I don't keep my car in boost just yet mostly as didn't have the upgraded fuel pump and stuff just the injectors installed.And wasn't sure how the maf would do at my 7.5psi even.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

I would likely try to put compressed air or maybe auto smoke machine thru the turbos to make sure they are not cracked internally. it should be a rare occurence but you never know. My dud put massive amounts of coolant into my oil pan. But for some reason didn't seem to go the other way. No oil in coolant. Not sure why it was like that. If had a good turbo shop close by might even send the aps turbos for check out or rebalance.
Also would send the exhaust manifolds for coating and the turbo hot sides for coating.

OneMean01

iTrader: (6)

$2500 is what peter wrote me a while back, for the full upgrade kit. Plus you have to buy a MSD starter seperate. He said you have to buy it or the bigger turbos will not fit. I just took the chance and ran the small ones and have had zero problems with anything in the kit. I check the car quite a bit, now have 1200 miles on it and run it like i stole it.

Dyno is coming in a few weeks gona get a base run at 10# Then see what these things put out before they are inefieceint. Im hoping 18# I know that power dies off around 5500 or so.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Well the turbos would be around 2500 to buy so that was no exchange they just sell you those outright? Guess then if sold the standard to someone it might work out to be maybe 1500 diff if sold the standards for even 500 each.

The upgraded kit was like 1000 more when it came out which was good deal.
I will have to talk to APS and see what they say now about the upgrade.
I do like the fast fast spool of the standards. I am not 100% sure the standards will die off at 5500 on a 402/408 pretty sure have seen them going past that on some dynos already. A lot of that might depend on cam choice. My car now seems to pull to 6500 no problem. I might go to 7000 occcasionally if needed that to give me mph with 3.54 planned gears depending on tire choice.

Course LG is doing the upgrading too and forced performance is a great shop the company doing the wheels and stuff.

I don't need the bigger turbos have plenty of power with the standards and spray but being a 408 it might be good to have a bit more airflow up top and bit slower spool.

bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

Here is a thread with the dyno results from LG Motorsports of a standard APS kit on a 347, and they are still running mostly stock size stuff, with the exception of forged internals of course. My motor should definitely hit these numbers and then some. It is apparent, however, that it totally runs out of steam at around 5,500rpm.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...800-901-a.html

OneMean01

iTrader: (6)

I know mine kinda peads out at that, it really doesnt feel like it but when i race if i shift around 5500 we are pretty close but once i take it up to 6500 you can see them pull a little on me. I think thats where the disadvantage is of the small turbos. I am quick off the line if i can get it to hook, but the bigger turbo guys once they get spooled they are off. I will be getting it out more often soon i hope so i can see how it does against a lot of my friends. Kinda hard to tell by yourself.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Yeah boost was dropping off and think it might have been from the springs. Standard springs are 7.5 and usually you can't go past double very easily. I would have swapped in say 10psi or 12psi base springs if he wants to try to hold 20psi. I have seen other graphs of aps that didn't fall off that much and although it did go down some it still stayed over 700rwhp to 6500. Cam also was stock cam. Different more favorable turbo cam should do better. Try to find the aps dyno graphs posted on here. they had a much better cam,afr 225s, fast 90/90 and they also pushed the boost up to 18 to 20 range.

The bigger turbos will for sure give more top end at the expense of bit slower spool up.
On bigger engine like 408 or 402 spool up would likely be same as smaller turbos on smaller engine.
all depends on what a guy wants and how much you want to spend.
1000rwhp no spray should be doable on the bigger turbos. 1000rwhp with spray should be doable on smaller turbos with 150 or 200 shot.

bluebird71

iTrader: (54)

How much higher in the rpm range do the bigger turbos make power? It sounds like the small ones are just gonna make me spin all day since they spool so quick and then leave me hangin' on the top end.