In the situation again of either procharger d1 or 76mm turbo
02-07-2009, 02:10 PM
#1
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In the situation again of either procharger d1 or 76mm turbo I KNOW this has been a reoccurring topic but I really want to figure out what I SHOULD do. I already have a GT 76mm turbo but nothing else. I can still sell it and buy a D1 setup. This will be going on a built 347 8.7:1 6 speed Firehawk.
I'm just looking for advice of what will be better for me to do. I really wanted to go the turbo route because I'm not a big fan of how superchargers sound. I want to keep the a/c and with the turbo kit I'll have to figure out how to route things or create a custom log style manifold. I haven't any previous experiences besides arc welding, and I don't have a welder... yet, but I may buy a cheaper one or find a good buddy to help out. The deal with the Procharger is you don't have to put up with all that exhaust wrap, higher temps, & engineering a kit since it basically bolts in. Though I COULD buy a used turbo kit that's already been worked around. The Procharger would be a much easier install for myself, but I'm not sure if I want to go that route. Which will be more cost beneficial in the end? A used D1 kit I can probably pick up for around $3500 but I think I can build the turbo kit much cheaper than that.
I'm just looking for advice of what will be better for me to do. I really wanted to go the turbo route because I'm not a big fan of how superchargers sound. I want to keep the a/c and with the turbo kit I'll have to figure out how to route things or create a custom log style manifold. I haven't any previous experiences besides arc welding, and I don't have a welder... yet, but I may buy a cheaper one or find a good buddy to help out. The deal with the Procharger is you don't have to put up with all that exhaust wrap, higher temps, & engineering a kit since it basically bolts in. Though I COULD buy a used turbo kit that's already been worked around. The Procharger would be a much easier install for myself, but I'm not sure if I want to go that route. Which will be more cost beneficial in the end? A used D1 kit I can probably pick up for around $3500 but I think I can build the turbo kit much cheaper than that.
02-08-2009, 08:11 PM
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I as well prefer turbos. I just hate the fact a d1 would probably be more ideal for me. The only thing I'm really worried about is finding a way to keep the a/c, underhood temps, & reliability daily driving.
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02-08-2009, 08:38 PM
#8
D1SC hands down. I had 2 turbo set-ups on my Trans Am and would only do a D1SC if I had to do it again. The simplicity and reliability is there. You retain AC, don't have underhood temps, and don't have to worry about oiling. Sounds like a no brainer to me for what your looking for out of the car.
Also, to already have a 76mm turbo and to post this question, I really feel that you want to do the D1SC, just need some sway and push for a reason to sell the 76 and get the D1
Also, to already have a 76mm turbo and to post this question, I really feel that you want to do the D1SC, just need some sway and push for a reason to sell the 76 and get the D1
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02-08-2009, 08:45 PM
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just make a log style manifold for the turbo or you can buy one from turbo technologies. and search the classifieds, you can get pretty good deal on turbo kits if you are patient. good luck
02-08-2009, 09:19 PM
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That'd be nice. But more dough than I want to spend, can't even get a used one for less than $5000.
lol, thanks. you do have a good point.
hmmm. is $800 or $900 worth it for one manifold? how many tools & how much skill will it require to make a decent one?
hmmm. is $800 or $900 worth it for one manifold? how many tools & how much skill will it require to make a decent one?
02-08-2009, 10:24 PM
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Dude do the d1. So much easier and reliable. If you are really planing on buying a welder,learning to weld (which takes years) and making you own kit for what 600hp.
Your going to kill yourself after you realize how much of a pain in the *** it is to make your own kit and then we will never even be able to check out your finished project.
Now if you said you want to make an all out drag car then i would say go turbo.
Also being a 6 speed car your blower is going to be a way better option. Blowers need rpm and rpm only,auto cars work way better with turbos usually.
Alex
Your going to kill yourself after you realize how much of a pain in the *** it is to make your own kit and then we will never even be able to check out your finished project.
Now if you said you want to make an all out drag car then i would say go turbo.
Also being a 6 speed car your blower is going to be a way better option. Blowers need rpm and rpm only,auto cars work way better with turbos usually.
Alex
Last edited by SPRAYED 01; 02-08-2009 at 10:34 PM.
02-08-2009, 10:37 PM
#12
Sorry been in both procharged cars..one ls1 and in lt1 procharged car. Have twin turbo, owned many turbo cars mostly dsms..still own some highly built dsms.
Turbos are very reliable if you have forged engine parts and reasonable tuning knowledge or access to tuning. Underhood heat is not usually a big issue, there are millions of factory cars running around with turbos for many many thousands of miles.
A procharger can not touch a turbo for efficiency and area under the curve. This is most noticeable on the street going up thru the gears ,you can compensate by gearing down if you are in higher gear just as you can compensate for turbo lag by gearing down. Smaller turbos spool up quick and a bit of lag can sometimes help in the traction department. And of course you can turn boost up and down and control it by rpm ,gear etc depending on your setup.
Oiling with turbos is relatively simple if you can go gravity feed. One line off the oil cooler outlet port after you drill and tap it ,5 minute job and then into the pan which is simple with pan off the car. Twins of course is a bit more involved.
I didn't give up my airconditioning with my aps kit. Install was long but not overly hard,manual was excellent and thing fit good. Car is already wicked fast and traction is hard to come by. At low boost for now. Lots more in it. Aps twin kit and procharger are close in price.
Now if you are going to fab up your own kit it should cost a bit less than a complete aps kit or procharged kit. Talking new of course. You may find a used procharger and a used aps or other make of turbo kit as well. You can buy some hot parts and think cold parts and think some keep the air. Turbos are not that complicated.
Some take oil cooling and some water and oil. But you don't worry about slipping belts either or stress on the crank. As long as you stick to basic quailty parts for the turbo, blow off and wastegate the rest is just piping. And its no harder to tune a turbo car than a supercharged one. And don't believe ati is anymore reliable than a quality turbo kit or build with quality parts.
Fact ati had lots of problems with their head units in the old days think not as much recently. But they are not cheap anymore either.
I have also been in two rear mount sts cars,one lt1 and one ls1. Both are pretty awesome as well.
Turbos are very reliable if you have forged engine parts and reasonable tuning knowledge or access to tuning. Underhood heat is not usually a big issue, there are millions of factory cars running around with turbos for many many thousands of miles.
A procharger can not touch a turbo for efficiency and area under the curve. This is most noticeable on the street going up thru the gears ,you can compensate by gearing down if you are in higher gear just as you can compensate for turbo lag by gearing down. Smaller turbos spool up quick and a bit of lag can sometimes help in the traction department. And of course you can turn boost up and down and control it by rpm ,gear etc depending on your setup.
Oiling with turbos is relatively simple if you can go gravity feed. One line off the oil cooler outlet port after you drill and tap it ,5 minute job and then into the pan which is simple with pan off the car. Twins of course is a bit more involved.
I didn't give up my airconditioning with my aps kit. Install was long but not overly hard,manual was excellent and thing fit good. Car is already wicked fast and traction is hard to come by. At low boost for now. Lots more in it. Aps twin kit and procharger are close in price.
Now if you are going to fab up your own kit it should cost a bit less than a complete aps kit or procharged kit. Talking new of course. You may find a used procharger and a used aps or other make of turbo kit as well. You can buy some hot parts and think cold parts and think some keep the air. Turbos are not that complicated.
Some take oil cooling and some water and oil. But you don't worry about slipping belts either or stress on the crank. As long as you stick to basic quailty parts for the turbo, blow off and wastegate the rest is just piping. And its no harder to tune a turbo car than a supercharged one. And don't believe ati is anymore reliable than a quality turbo kit or build with quality parts.
Fact ati had lots of problems with their head units in the old days think not as much recently. But they are not cheap anymore either.
I have also been in two rear mount sts cars,one lt1 and one ls1. Both are pretty awesome as well.
02-08-2009, 11:27 PM
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wonder how much longer the install will take me between the D1 & the turbo setup, assuming I purchase a turbo kit thats already laid out. the good thing I have going for me is of course already having a new Garrett turbo, and my 347 already has a port drilled to the oil pan. plus I already know I'd be buying turbo smart and/or tial wastegate & bov, so the quality with my turbo setup would be there. after reading a lot about failing silicone couplers, I would make sure I'd have the right material to get the job done.
but one thing I have been thinking of is using the hot/cold pipes, intercooler, & the manifolds from the cheap ebay kit. I believe one or two of the members here bought it and used the decent-quality parts from it and fab'd the rest.
it's either that or taking the dimensions & structuring a kit like someone elses setup that retains the A/C. is there a single turbo kit out there that keeps the a/c and keeps stock alternator location? and possibly doesn't require an aftermarket k member for okay ground clearance?
but one thing I have been thinking of is using the hot/cold pipes, intercooler, & the manifolds from the cheap ebay kit. I believe one or two of the members here bought it and used the decent-quality parts from it and fab'd the rest.
it's either that or taking the dimensions & structuring a kit like someone elses setup that retains the A/C. is there a single turbo kit out there that keeps the a/c and keeps stock alternator location? and possibly doesn't require an aftermarket k member for okay ground clearance?
02-08-2009, 11:28 PM
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Hey man, I have been DD my car for over a year with speeds old setup, and it is plenty reliable. I have AC, and the underhood temps were low enough to not give me any trouble through the summer. The hardest part is getting a good system to mount the turbo on. I like the feel of the turbo more so than a supercharger. Speed seriously got me hooked on these things.
02-08-2009, 11:40 PM
#17
Yeah garett is good qualty as are tial make sure you dont get knock offs and turbosmart is good stuff too.Again make sure no knock offs.
Thats why don't see why guys think turbos are so complicated. You need a nice front mount usually of course too. Decent silicone connectors and tbolt clamps. My aps came with ok worm gear but t bolt are best and likely will replace them at some point.
Decent quality intercooler that don't leak. piping is pretty much piping. Course nice to have beaded so connectors don't blow off. As said gravity feed setup is pretty simple water cooling slightly more complicated. And log manifolds have been known to crack sometimes. And relocating stuff can get to be work.
One reason I bought a kit. Doing turbo kit on tight budget is possible but not my style.
There is a local guy that did one on his third gen..and it seems to be working great so far. He ran 11.2 at like 125 so far. On a decently built 350 auto. He has master power turbo, not sure make of blow off an gate..not tial but seems ok. He got some stuff from ebay.
Thats why don't see why guys think turbos are so complicated. You need a nice front mount usually of course too. Decent silicone connectors and tbolt clamps. My aps came with ok worm gear but t bolt are best and likely will replace them at some point.
Decent quality intercooler that don't leak. piping is pretty much piping. Course nice to have beaded so connectors don't blow off. As said gravity feed setup is pretty simple water cooling slightly more complicated. And log manifolds have been known to crack sometimes. And relocating stuff can get to be work.
One reason I bought a kit. Doing turbo kit on tight budget is possible but not my style.
There is a local guy that did one on his third gen..and it seems to be working great so far. He ran 11.2 at like 125 so far. On a decently built 350 auto. He has master power turbo, not sure make of blow off an gate..not tial but seems ok. He got some stuff from ebay.
02-09-2009, 01:38 AM
#18
I have a brand new in the box D1SC kit with the thicker intercoolers and polished plenum if you want to make an offer on it. I bought the kit about 2-3 years ago and have sat on it due to getting married and getting a new truck and other BS putting my build on the back burner. I really want the F series blower offered now (no one was really going with those back when I bought the D1SC). PM me a fair offer and maybe we can work something out. Everything is still new and wrapped in plastic, blower has been out of the foam maybe twice for me to drool over a lil so at worst it has some fingerprints on it lol.
02-09-2009, 01:42 AM
#19
Oh and I have the regular size pulley that comes on the blower from the factory and a smaller 3.55 pulley with matching belts with it as well.
I considered a turbo kit but every kit seemed to have something I didnt like, a exhaust tube under the k-member, lost a/c, lost power steering, something was "wrong" with every kit that wasnt extraordinarily expensive it seemed.
I considered a turbo kit but every kit seemed to have something I didnt like, a exhaust tube under the k-member, lost a/c, lost power steering, something was "wrong" with every kit that wasnt extraordinarily expensive it seemed.
Last edited by BIG BAD BLACKSS; 02-09-2009 at 02:38 AM.
02-09-2009, 07:27 AM
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Hey man, I have been DD my car for over a year with speeds old setup, and it is plenty reliable. I have AC, and the underhood temps were low enough to not give me any trouble through the summer. The hardest part is getting a good system to mount the turbo on. I like the feel of the turbo more so than a supercharger. Speed seriously got me hooked on these things.
