Zombie's "Quick Spool" valve testing with pics and nerd like graphs
04-17-2009, 11:45 AM
#83
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have one on the way for my cummins truck and s468. It will probably be a week or 2 before I can get it on. I will report back in. Have to say i'm a bit nervous about this piece in front of the turbine inlet of my $2000 s468 but Richard seemed confident of no issues to come! Time will tell.
04-17-2009, 12:07 PM
#84
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got back from the track. Unfortunately I didn't run as well as I normally do. Only managed a best of 10.55 and 10.6x and a 10.8 with a passanger. Best 60' was a 1.63 on the 10.55 pass. MPH was 131.xx on the quickest passes.
Before anyone jumps on me for "bad times", the track was absolutely horrible. I tried my first pass at 15psi and that was the 10.6 @ 131 and I had trouble keeping it in the groove up to the 1000' mark. Second pass was at the same boost with a soft launch again and I actually had to abort the pass around the 330' mark because it came out of the groove and went towards the center line. After that experience I turned the boost down to 13psi. It still required me to drive the car (usually it's a relaxing uneventful ride to low 10.x passes) and clicked off the best of 10.55 @ 131. I was hazing the tires through the entire pass even on the lower boost.
I played with the car from some 60-70 mph rolls on the way home from the track (terrifying my GF who was riding shotgun) and the street hooked up MUCH better. Was able to make pulls at 17psi and I think I'm going to be able to squeek 18psi out of this WG spring. Track is open on Sunday again and I plan on going. Since it is a test and tune there will be some track prep.
On another note this thing is an absolute animal on the street. It comes up on boost so fast and smooth it's amazing. I now love my car even more than I did before. I HIGHLY recommend using one of these valves on any street car, the results are absolutely amazing.
I'm also hoping to get some video of this spooling this weekend for everyone. The car is ridiculous to drive.
Before anyone jumps on me for "bad times", the track was absolutely horrible. I tried my first pass at 15psi and that was the 10.6 @ 131 and I had trouble keeping it in the groove up to the 1000' mark. Second pass was at the same boost with a soft launch again and I actually had to abort the pass around the 330' mark because it came out of the groove and went towards the center line. After that experience I turned the boost down to 13psi. It still required me to drive the car (usually it's a relaxing uneventful ride to low 10.x passes) and clicked off the best of 10.55 @ 131. I was hazing the tires through the entire pass even on the lower boost.
I played with the car from some 60-70 mph rolls on the way home from the track (terrifying my GF who was riding shotgun) and the street hooked up MUCH better. Was able to make pulls at 17psi and I think I'm going to be able to squeek 18psi out of this WG spring. Track is open on Sunday again and I plan on going. Since it is a test and tune there will be some track prep.
On another note this thing is an absolute animal on the street. It comes up on boost so fast and smooth it's amazing. I now love my car even more than I did before. I HIGHLY recommend using one of these valves on any street car, the results are absolutely amazing.
I'm also hoping to get some video of this spooling this weekend for everyone. The car is ridiculous to drive.
04-20-2009, 07:12 AM
#87
04-20-2009, 08:53 AM
#88
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm on it. I'm kind of shocked more haven't reported test results of their home brewed valves or valves like Richard's. Just seems like a no brainer to me!
04-29-2009, 01:20 AM
#89
I have a 97 dodge with a 12v cummins and a big single s468 that's got it's eye on your results 1320 so keep me posted!!! I ran some low 12 second passes, best 12.07) last night at 6350lbs and am trying to go faster but being this truck's a drive i'd sure like to spool this single up sooner and would definitely like to do so at the line! It takes a while to get this charger lit on the line with my current converter.
05-26-2009, 09:03 AM
#91
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok guys, this is my thread from comp diesel so consider that many of the things hear are meant for cummins 12v applications but the idea and theory are still the same. Also, lighting this s468 previously took about 15-18 seconds. Now it takes about 5-8 seconds. Further, increased diesel timing hurts turbo spool, I say this to clarify my timing remarks made later in my reply. Enjoy!
Ok guys, so here is the narrative on this quick spool flange.
I got the flange from Richard at Performance Metal Works. Basically the idea is to shut off half the dual volute turbine housing to make gasses accelerate really fast to the turbine wheel under low/part throttle conditions. As the boost builds an actuator opens the butterfly valve to allow almost a full open exhaust gas passage to both volutes. I say almost full as the shaft and butterfly are still in the path of the one volute but with it full open it is a minimal restriction.
Now, this is how I have mine setup
I have a pdi t4 manifold which is obviously divided. I have an ED t4/t4 1" spacer plate which my wastegate is welded to. This spacer was previously divided. I removed this spacer and undivided it with a combination of sawzall and cut off wheel/die grinder. Because of the wastegate tube interfering I had to run the quick spool flange with the actuator portion facing down not up. It was no problem to run it this way and have pleanty of room. Now, in clearencing the ED plate I didn't quite remove enought material so I get a little bit of interference as the plate tries to open all the way. Further, I placed a return spring on the opening lever of the flange to aid in returning the flange to the closed posotion in case of any interference. So far it's worked out wonder full for me this way. The actuator comes with a 4psi cracking pressure and a 10psi open pressure. I run a boost elbow with the adjustable allen screw in the air path to reduce the signal even further if I want for later cracking pressure. I have it pretty much backed all the way out for full air and may divert this regulating device over to wastegate regulation in the future, more on that later.
Driving impressions:
This turbo now spools better then the ball bearing t66 that was on the truck (s468 as the thread implies). Cruising egts at 70mph are about 100 degrees cooler and cruise boost is about 5 psi there, before it was about 2 psi. The turbine screams all the time now where as before the flange it was barely audible. Flooring the truck while not shifting manually now results in 60+ psi pretty quick. Before the valve the turbo would barely get to 60 psi. Now it pegs the gage in a hurry. I need to verify drive with this valve as my gut says it has increased and I may need to start using my wastegate. Without using the wastegate I previously had just under 60psi boost for 64 psi drive.
Keep in mind that I also bumped the timing when putting this flange on. I was fighting a timing issue which had me around 15 degrees at the time just prior to putting the flange on. I am now at 26* and the turbo still lights this much faster.
I honestly think these flanges have the ability to make large s472 and up charger more realistic for the street strip guy with some tuning. That too me is awseome being the idea of having small twin air with the same driveability all out of one turbo. Now, in a custom twin setup you could cover a much larger range of power.
Things that had to happen to fit the flange.
I had to make a spacer for my down pipe which consisted of welding two s400 v-band flanges together to move my down pipe 1" farther back. You will have clearence issues with the trans and frame if not atleast in my combination. Everything else required no modifications other then modifications I previously did to fit this turbo and gate (having to trim intercooler pipe on both ends to use current discharge elbow).
I believe there are going to be a few versions of this flange offered in the near future and if you were in the same boat I was in (wanting better spool out of a big single with the big single air) then imho you need to give one of these a shot!!! All that's required is a small small bit of fabbing and some ingenuity!
Ok guys, so here is the narrative on this quick spool flange.
I got the flange from Richard at Performance Metal Works. Basically the idea is to shut off half the dual volute turbine housing to make gasses accelerate really fast to the turbine wheel under low/part throttle conditions. As the boost builds an actuator opens the butterfly valve to allow almost a full open exhaust gas passage to both volutes. I say almost full as the shaft and butterfly are still in the path of the one volute but with it full open it is a minimal restriction.
Now, this is how I have mine setup
I have a pdi t4 manifold which is obviously divided. I have an ED t4/t4 1" spacer plate which my wastegate is welded to. This spacer was previously divided. I removed this spacer and undivided it with a combination of sawzall and cut off wheel/die grinder. Because of the wastegate tube interfering I had to run the quick spool flange with the actuator portion facing down not up. It was no problem to run it this way and have pleanty of room. Now, in clearencing the ED plate I didn't quite remove enought material so I get a little bit of interference as the plate tries to open all the way. Further, I placed a return spring on the opening lever of the flange to aid in returning the flange to the closed posotion in case of any interference. So far it's worked out wonder full for me this way. The actuator comes with a 4psi cracking pressure and a 10psi open pressure. I run a boost elbow with the adjustable allen screw in the air path to reduce the signal even further if I want for later cracking pressure. I have it pretty much backed all the way out for full air and may divert this regulating device over to wastegate regulation in the future, more on that later.
Driving impressions:
This turbo now spools better then the ball bearing t66 that was on the truck (s468 as the thread implies). Cruising egts at 70mph are about 100 degrees cooler and cruise boost is about 5 psi there, before it was about 2 psi. The turbine screams all the time now where as before the flange it was barely audible. Flooring the truck while not shifting manually now results in 60+ psi pretty quick. Before the valve the turbo would barely get to 60 psi. Now it pegs the gage in a hurry. I need to verify drive with this valve as my gut says it has increased and I may need to start using my wastegate. Without using the wastegate I previously had just under 60psi boost for 64 psi drive.
Keep in mind that I also bumped the timing when putting this flange on. I was fighting a timing issue which had me around 15 degrees at the time just prior to putting the flange on. I am now at 26* and the turbo still lights this much faster.
I honestly think these flanges have the ability to make large s472 and up charger more realistic for the street strip guy with some tuning. That too me is awseome being the idea of having small twin air with the same driveability all out of one turbo. Now, in a custom twin setup you could cover a much larger range of power.
Things that had to happen to fit the flange.
I had to make a spacer for my down pipe which consisted of welding two s400 v-band flanges together to move my down pipe 1" farther back. You will have clearence issues with the trans and frame if not atleast in my combination. Everything else required no modifications other then modifications I previously did to fit this turbo and gate (having to trim intercooler pipe on both ends to use current discharge elbow).
I believe there are going to be a few versions of this flange offered in the near future and if you were in the same boat I was in (wanting better spool out of a big single with the big single air) then imho you need to give one of these a shot!!! All that's required is a small small bit of fabbing and some ingenuity!
05-26-2009, 09:47 AM
#92
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: LV NV
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good to hear, I d have my two valve set up on probably but I ve been waiting for a 4 inch v band flange from forced inductions for awhile. Im doing two on my compound cummins. Hx40 19 and ht3b 26.
I d like to say I told you..........ok........see I told you.
You should post this over on diesel truck resourse too.
05-26-2009, 09:55 AM
#93
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good to hear, I d have my two valve set up on probably but I ve been waiting for a 4 inch v band flange from forced inductions for awhile. Im doing two on my compound cummins. Hx40 19 and ht3b 26.
I d like to say I told you..........ok........see I told you.
You should post this over on diesel truck resourse too.
I'm not a member of that site. Just copy and paste the link if you like, I don't mind.
05-26-2009, 11:52 AM
#95
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, they do and in my case they may give me much more air down low which should gain me some good et. Getting air in front of all the fuel my diesel has is very important. Truck sure feels damn strong after adding this valve, more so then it did when it ran 12.07.
06-07-2009, 01:01 PM
#99
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Managed to get some pics up of how I have things run and after swapping on the new flange. Follow the text on each pic for a description of each photo.
A shot of how close the discharge pipe is to the frame.
A general shot of the whole setup.
Using a boost elbow to regulate air to the bottom port of the ED gate.
A shot of the flanges. From driver to passenger side: 1)PDI t4 manifold; 2) ED wastegate plate cut open to provide the common plenum area in front of quick spool flange; 3) quick spool flange; and 4) .90 s400 turbine housing.
A shot of the two s400 turbine exhaust outlet v-bands holding on my spacer I welded up consisting of two s400 v-band flanges (the smaller t4 version, not the huge 5" t6 version) welded together.
A shot of the bracket holding the actuator on the quick spool flange.
Just another general shot. The brass fitting in the te manifold is a t that I use for drive to the gate top port and another port for placing drive pressure gauge on when I want to test drive.
A shot of how close the discharge pipe is to the frame.
A general shot of the whole setup.
Using a boost elbow to regulate air to the bottom port of the ED gate.
A shot of the flanges. From driver to passenger side: 1)PDI t4 manifold; 2) ED wastegate plate cut open to provide the common plenum area in front of quick spool flange; 3) quick spool flange; and 4) .90 s400 turbine housing.
A shot of the two s400 turbine exhaust outlet v-bands holding on my spacer I welded up consisting of two s400 v-band flanges (the smaller t4 version, not the huge 5" t6 version) welded together.
A shot of the bracket holding the actuator on the quick spool flange.
Just another general shot. The brass fitting in the te manifold is a t that I use for drive to the gate top port and another port for placing drive pressure gauge on when I want to test drive.
07-08-2009, 11:51 AM
#100
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Salisbury,MD
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to be selling the turbo and quick spool flange if anyone is interested feel free to pm me. The 468 would work well in gas motor apps as well and this is no box stock bolted on pieces s468. Thanks.