Black LS1 T/A:
It's an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno.

PSJ:
When you max out the blower your boost will normally still go up, but it will be from heating the air up, not really flowing any more air. If his intercooler was good enough to pull it all down to the same temp then you could flatline like that, but I wouldn't expect the D1 to be maxxed out yet (though it's hard to tell since ATI wont give out any compressor maps)

 

Definitely low . . . if I take into account 15% drivetrain loss on my car, I put 630/670 to the flywheel on a bone-stock motor ( top AND bottom ) and 8.5psi . . . on 91 octane no less.

 

427 (kurt), check your PM's

 

Oh...

 

Ok, lets go over this to make sure we are all on the same page.

P-1SC, and D-1SC will not make the same boost numbers on a 346, 383, 402, 422, and 427, the bigger the motor, the less boost that will be generated, That is why you can get 12or 13psi on a 346 ci. On a 427 with -20cc dish pistons and a cc chamber of 74cc, compression probably around 9.5 to 1, you are not going to make over 10 on a 427. This was with an 8 rib setup 7.70 crank pulley or abouts, and a 3.40 pulley on the blower. It is not slipping, the blower is maxed out and cant make any more boost than 10 on this application.

The impeller is completely different on a F1-and F1-R, where as the F1-R is more top peaky. The same amount of air can be generated with an F1 running a 4.0 pulley on the blower as you can see from Kurts run. The part that you dont see in my numbers is the CFM, here they are and please note no slipage.

3500 495
3600 510
3700 535
3800 564
3900 589
4000 620
4100 633
4200 663
4300 690
4400 714
4500 737
4600 768
4700 789
4800 803
4900 825
5000 849
5100 864
5200 881
5300 891
5400 908
5500 918
5600 925
5700 934
5800 943
5900 957
6000 956

at 6000 the blower has reached all it can do based on the displacement of the size of the engine. The D-1SC is maxed out.

If any one else has number to back up what they have done I would really like to see them.

Kurt, I would really like to talk to you about this. If you dont remember me, you and I have talked about the $10000 intake that you build. I am in Charlotte,NC. Can you pass me along your email or email me directly at

lunapark@perigee.net
thanks
Bryan Wilkinson

 

Brian:

The numbers are low for an engine dyno. The D1SC is suspect. Try a turbo for adequate hp. Centri S/Cs are sad and tired and inadequate for real street driven hp without never ending belt issues (that oughta get the S/C crowd out, Mike, Scott, etc... )

Check out Jelly Power (DIAMOND). He's very solid for reliable hp and beside me (or, except me), he can assemble a several-season longblock. He may smack the locals (like scurvy dogs), but he's one of the few credible people in Detroit. (check the "loc")

SC-

 

ss00blue,
that is totoally false. I have street driven HP. He already have the blower and motor and is asking for help not for someone to tell him to ditch the blower and his motor.
really nice man

 

FIRST! I NEVER told him to "ditch his motor". You read that into something that was NEVER written!

Next. My post was partially tongue-in-cheek and partially a statement of fact.

Scott (and anyone else with an S/C):

Tell us that belts are NEVER an issue... I know that turbos have only been out for 5 years less than blowers, but the MAJORITY of posts are concerning belts being thrown. S/Cs are lame on torque, both under the curve and peak. No turbo has ever thrown a belt and, as a result, lost HP.

No disrespect intended to your combo, or Mike's, or John's, but S/Cs have had SO many more years and examples, but have failed to compare to the scant few turbo examples that have come to the fore.

This IS just my opinion!

SC-

 

I believe it is soooooblue,

Here is the engine block design,

GM C5-R 7.0 LS1 Racing block
Modlex Billet Crank
Carillo lightweight rods
Diamond pistons Ceramic coated on top and teflon coated on side.

You won't find a better stronger built block anywhere on the LS1 Planet.

Now in regards to the turbo, I thought very long and hard about that, and the problem that I came up with was that If I had to do it, I wanted (2) not (1), but then I have all that extra header plumbing, then all the extra heat under the hood. Heat is the killer,

There is one person on the forum that has posted to this thread with a picture of twin turbos. That is the best application of a turbo install that I have ever seen in a F-Body, he kept the turbos up top to reduce heat down low. Very Very smart. I Also didn't want to spin any blower of any type to 20psi to make the hp and TQ numbers that I wanted to make. It is not necessary nor required.

I'm guessing here, but I think if I switch to an F1 or one the new blowers that are coming out, next year, that I can run a 4.0 or 3.8 pulley and make 8 psi at 4000RPM and 12 at 6000, and I will be in the 800-850 range, but I also believe that the head design needs to concentrate more on the exhaust port than the intake port. This would allow me to move to a cam design like a 236/236 .600/.600 on a 114 or 115 ls, and give me the street driveablity that I want. What I am not willing to give up is the TQ numbers that I have, I am making 700TQ at 3600 RPM and it is almost flat throughout the entire RPM range. Please do not be offended by the question, but does your turbo do that.

I posted this because I want to share my experience, my mistakes, and hopefully get the same info from others on the list that have done sorta what I have so that I can get where I want to be.

thanks for the turbo thought anyway. I am not willing to go that route.

 

[/b]

But there are plenty of other issues - just do a search for "turbo and problem"

I agree, conceptually turbo's are better, but there is quite a bit to be said for ease of setup, etc. A properly setup blower combination is just a simpler concept in my opinion - everything in life is a tradeoff, this is just another set of choices that have to be made. That said a blower is perfectly capable of delivering the performance required.



Isn't the fastest LS1 out there right now a blower car?


Bryan - it still seems to me like the D1 should have a little more - I have made 640rwhp @ 5200 (18psi) on a LT1 383 - stopped there as the injectors were maxxed out. Your motor *should* have a higher bsac, so I would expect a bit more power, also



with a 4.44 stepup and 6000rpm (highest value you listed), we have an impeller speed of

7.7 * 4.44 * 6000 / 3.4, or 60,331 impeller rpm. The D1 is rated for 65,000 impeller rpm, and normally you can work past that a bit.

I would still expect your boost to climb, not flat-line.

The F1 would definitely allow you to make more power, and it is a good blower - but heck, according to prochargers rating it's only rated for 125CFM more - so if we assume they are accurate it is *not* going to be a night and day difference. (though again, a compressor map would help tremendously in this instance).

What is your blower inlet like - is there any flex tubing that could collapse, or anything that could be a restriction? You could just try running open blower for one dyno pull and see what the boost does.

I think you are definitely ballpark, but I still think are a few issues with the setup that need to be resolved (nothing major though). That said the numbers are still stout - it's just a matter of getting every little bit or being happy with "good enough" - and by your parts selection and seeming throughness I am guessing you are going for everything the combination is worth.

What kind of timing are you seeing, and what type of gas?

 

Bryan, my 408 numbers are with a d1sc with a 7.75 crank pulley and 4.0 blower pulley. By chance did you have a mass air meter in front of the blower?
As for turbochargers there is no question they are more efficient but much harder for the average guy to install. I ran a 6.0 litre gen 3 today with a 67mm street single on it with air to water intercooler. It produced 850 ft lbs at about 4000 rpm( at home working from memory) but only 740 hp at about 5500. I have built 3 motors my dyno could not hold 2 were turbo 1 was blown all were big block chevy's.
In the end the fastest gen 3 is currently a blown car but those records are usually short lived.
It always is incredible to see what these cars and people can do.
Can't wait to get back out there next year.....
The debate lives!
Walled lake huh....were neighbors

Kurt

 

Great thread!
Plz keep us posted on the project.

 

How true

We're all neighbors, watch out for the MI boys in the spring

 

 

Ok kind of hijacking this thread but it was determined that an F1 will fit on the D1SC bracket, but will an F1R fit on the same bracket?

 

I think that Bryan forgot to mention that the combo was not run with the intercooler on the dyno, and that the tune had 15 degrees of total timing. The air temps were in the 140 on the top of the run and the air fuel was 11.5.

 

The maf is on the pressure side of the blower.