Brian Anderson made 1600+rwhp at that dyno shootout in Vegas on e85...he won that event. I talked to him about a month ago...for his car he does like c16 better and now Q16 but it does show the potential of e85

http://www.carcraft.com/eventcoverag...our/index.html

 

That's why you build a split fuel system like me....93pump and a flick of a switch....full c16...I spend about $200 a year on race gas and have FULL power whenever I want!

 

You all can make big power on the dyno with e85 or even 93....when they do these dyno challages they just stab the throttle for an instant to get the number, and they are back out of it a sec or two later.... there is no time for things to get hot and melt down......you guys got to use your thinking caps...

 

I wasn't trying to be an ***...just stating that $15 a gallon is a drop in the bucket compared to what the car is worth to me staying together making passes.

Most turbo car's make good power on pump gas and even more for the dyno/track. It's the all motor/ nitrous guy's that have to worry about racefuel only.

 

Bought a non-intercooled maggie with E85 in mind due to burning cooler. Currently I'm NA and run AFR in the 10:1 range. At low rpm's it's closer to gas going as high as 13:1 up until about 2700 rpm. Running 28 degrees of timing. Stock compression.

 

i guess pump gas drags was a joke.....

 

Power can be made with E85...but the point was, it really doesn't compare to C16......nor does the quick snap of the throttle at a dyno challenge, compare to an all out pass down a track.

 

i agree on both of your points then. i thought you were saying you couldnt go fast on e85. C16 loves that heat....thats created by my ebay intercooler

 

LOL That's funny

 

i have been tunning on e85, i was trying to keep my afrs in the 11.2 11.6 at wot 17psi of boost and i ended up melting holes in two piston right at the exhaust relifes. BBC 29degs of timming for now looking to get up in the mid 30s
the more i have been reading on e85 forums you want to be 10.1 10.8 at wot on a boosted app... thats with a wideband thats tuned for gas 11.2 11.6 you will melt pistons

 

I usually get about 200F lower EGT´s when just switching over to E85 from pump gas.

When doing a basic tune on street i generally shoot for an additional 4-5 degrees of timing compared to max/knock on regular pump gas (99 oct here in sweden , differences between mon/ron).
When on dyno the power increase just flattens when adding to much ignition , i never take it past the point where power decreases.
Usually back the ignition down 2-3 degrees and loose the additional 10-15 fwhp that would have been gained.
I have not had the advantage of using equipment that reads cylinderpressures per rpm , it´s quite expensive.

I shoot for lamda 1.0 for cruising on street (or up to 1.15-1.18 when optimize for lower fuelconsumption with adjustment on ignition).
When comming on boost i gradually lower to about 0.80-0.82 lambda at WOT for safe street tune.
For race/quartermile i take to lambda 0.86-0.88.
The EGT´s tops out around 1600F at end of quartermile when making decent power/efficiency.

The turbos usually maxes out at the lbs rating multiplied with 11.5 , depending on engine.
Also seems to spool a couple of hundred rpms sooner/engine responds a little better on throttle.

4 pcs of 1630cc injectors(on 48psi basepressure boost ref reg.) combined with twin Walbro pumps usually hits about 700 fwhp if staying around 85% injector duty and safety margin on pumps.

The engine can take quite some abuse with E85 , I´ve had filters clogg up with lambda 1.1 as result.
Friend of mine has had a NOS system setup wrong with a 75-100 shot and hit lambda above lambda 1.1 with 30+ psi of boost etc etc.

In sweden they usually supply E75 to the pumps from November to end of March.

This is on 4-cyl engines (9-10 static CR , a little low though) , 8 cyl engines should be twice the fun combined with RWD.
I´m going to try the 5.3L LM7 engine with some E85 and boost , seems like a durable engine and should be a lot of fun.

Regards Marko

 

Interesting points, but I think you're running too much timing at WOT.

The post above - his Lambda readings put him in the 11.x:1 range.

Alcohol does have a pretty wide range where it will work. I'll target 11:1 with low timing (~20 degrees) and start tuning from there and report back my findings.

You also need a pretty hefty pump and plumbing to make big power on E85. Since my target is 1000hp, I bumped up to 120lb low impedance injectors and a 1500hp (on gas) Fuelab pump with the new Aeromotive Pump Speed Controller.

Jim

 

[QUOTE
When doing a basic tune on street i generally shoot for an additional 4-5 degrees of timing compared to max/knock on regular pump gas (99 oct here in sweden , differences between mon/ron).
When on dyno the power increase just flattens when adding to much ignition , i never take it past the point where power decreases.
Usually back the ignition down 2-3 degrees and loose the additional 10-15 fwhp that would have been gained.

Regards Marko[/QUOTE]

That additional 2-3 degs timing could mean a loss of 200-400hp in a boost V8!
I'll stick to keeping that with C16 thanks.....

 

Maybe you missunderstod me about the timing/powerproduction.

I was making an example of a 2.3liter/4 cyl engine that produces only 700fwhp at 7000rpm.

If you start with a fairly good basetune on the dyno from lets say 13 deg timing and AFR/Lambda around 8/0.8.
Upping the ignition in steps of 1 deg upwards 17 deg adds about 15-17 fwhp per deg of ignition.

Then you reach a point where upping the ignition 1 deg only adds about 5 fwhp , there is no point in advancing ignition 2-3 deg further for a gain of total maybe 10-15hp and maybe reaching the limits of the fuel/engine with the risk of breaking the engine.

That´s also a more safe approach when tuning without expensive equipment for measuring cylinderpressures or somekind of knockdetection calibrated for E85.
Also upping the ign to much might stress the engine internals to much with excessive peak cylinderpressures , broken ringlands on stock pistons , engine starts to push water etc.
I have no experience in tuning with expensive equipment for measuring cylinderpressures though.

When buying E85 from the gasstation there might be some small differences in fuel , you never quite know what you get.

Hopefully my stock LM7/L59 will take the abuse of turbocharging with E85 when i get it runing , they seem to handle quite a lot of power when tuned safe.
I don´t want to go through to many stock engines so I´d rather tune it fairly safe

Let´s say you have a 6.0L LS V8 turbo running on E85 on ~8.0AFR/lambda 0.8 and a total of deg 18 timing making 1400 fwhp.
So you are saying that when taking ignition down to 16 deg it will make upwards 400 fwhp less??


Regards Marko

 

i have heard of a few poeple doing that. but you have to be careful so all the pump gas is out of system before you push it.

plus i race about 2-3 times a night. we have a huge race scene around here. so i would use more then $200 worth. lol

 

A 700 fwhp durable engine on street consumes a lot of fuel with E85 if racing every other weekend fri/sat a year.
1.6+ gal a minute WOT/full power is quite a lot.

Regards Marko

 

a 700 horse car does consume a lot of fuel either way. so if it cost me 2 gallons a run with e85 and only 1 gallon a run with c16. i am still dollars ahead with e85.

e 85 only consumes 30%(on average) more fuel then gas does.

 

me too -

 

In Sweden VP CSP costs about 388% more than E85.

The AF ratio of E85 is about 10 compared to about 14.9 for race gas wich is a about 50% difference.

A "fellow racer" made 915fwhp on VP CSP on a 2.0L/4cyl engine compared to 865hp with E85.

So E85 is a little more economical even if it doesn´t make quite as much power on a safer tune as racefuels on a little more agressive.

Regards Marko

 

Dude i takes about 3 seconds. to get c16 all the way through the lines....thats it! And I can make around 10 street runs off my 8ish gallon race tank... Only thing is I don't have too many 1000+rwhp cars around here to race so...yeah, I need more races too...