How to stage an auto turbo car?
01-13-2010, 09:26 AM
#22
Yeah I have same goal but no rollbar at all. Lucky that have a few tracks around not all NHRA. The closest one is NHRA so they will for sure kick me off under 11.5. I have not decided if going to run rollbar or not since car will be retired from track after it hits a 9 anything.
01-13-2010, 10:29 AM
#23
A change to numerically lower rear gears also helps with spooling on the foot brake. Not an option for everyone, but a numerically lower gear gives less torque multiplication. I can spool to around 10psi/4500 rpm on the foot brake at the track (if it's prepped) before it pushes.
My strategy was to build as much boost as possible on the line since I wasn't able to spool very quickly initially which caused poor 60' times. Waste gate opens at 15psi about 30 ft out (if it hooks up) with a 8psi launch.
If I'm racing someone and need to cut a good light, I foot brake it to 2-3psi, bump into staged and grab the trans brake.
My strategy was to build as much boost as possible on the line since I wasn't able to spool very quickly initially which caused poor 60' times. Waste gate opens at 15psi about 30 ft out (if it hooks up) with a 8psi launch.
If I'm racing someone and need to cut a good light, I foot brake it to 2-3psi, bump into staged and grab the trans brake.
01-16-2010, 03:58 PM
#24
I looked into the converter a little more. After talking with RPM about my converter it looks like my converter is a good bit tighter than a 3600. Prob a 3200 at best. I also found out about the "turbo mod" for the converter that needs to be done.
I think between doing some work on the converter and getting a better cam I should be in a lot better shape.
I think between doing some work on the converter and getting a better cam I should be in a lot better shape.
08-23-2011, 08:48 PM
#25
Ok so what is the best way to stage a turbo car with a brake and two step? Do you build up boost on the foot brake and then lock in the transbrake/2step or do you just stage and lock in the brake and floor it on the two step? I know that I need to make sure to pump my brakes next time out a few more times but I keep pushing thru at 2-3lbs.
08-23-2011, 08:59 PM
#26
i run 2 msd 2steps. one that is basically activated with the foot brake so you can bump into the lights then the second is used on the transbrake so you can up the rpm a little. pm me and i can get you the wiring diagram to set it up
08-23-2011, 11:01 PM
#27
On our cars you will either need two seperate two steps, one for footbrake one for transbrake. With the 2 step on my car I can build 3 psi at 2600 rpm very quickly without prestaging it on the foot brake, but it makes for soft 60' times. It will be hard to hold any kind of boost over 2-3 psi on the stock discs our cars have and calipers. They just won't hold.
I actually found a really clever way to stage and I don't know if this will work for any one else, but it can't hurt to try. I found out that if I press my t brake button in 2nd gear the tranny will shift to 3rd until I let off the button and it shifts back to second. Only reason this works on my car is because the trans brake works off 2-3 shift solenoid.
So now when I stage instead of being in 1st and having all the gear reduction pushing through the brakes, I shift the car into manual 2nd and hold the t brake button down which shifts the tranny into 3rd. I can then build 7 psi on the foot brake without even coming close to pushing through. Soon as I light both lights I shift from manual 2nd into 1st while still holding the t brake button. At that point I am in 1st gear on the trans brake with 9-10 psi of boost built at whatever rpm my two step is set at (usually 3600-3900rpm sometimes 3400 if I'm on street tires and it still builds 10 psi) and I let off the footbrake, floor it and wait for the last amber and let off the trans brake button.
This has worked wonders for me being able to footbrake the car in 3rd and only have one motion to set the t brake really and thats down shifting my rachet shifter which is pretty easy. Only thing I am encountering now is getting the suspension to settle on the hard street tires I have been running since I've been too lazy to put on my hoosiers at the track.
I actually found a really clever way to stage and I don't know if this will work for any one else, but it can't hurt to try. I found out that if I press my t brake button in 2nd gear the tranny will shift to 3rd until I let off the button and it shifts back to second. Only reason this works on my car is because the trans brake works off 2-3 shift solenoid.
So now when I stage instead of being in 1st and having all the gear reduction pushing through the brakes, I shift the car into manual 2nd and hold the t brake button down which shifts the tranny into 3rd. I can then build 7 psi on the foot brake without even coming close to pushing through. Soon as I light both lights I shift from manual 2nd into 1st while still holding the t brake button. At that point I am in 1st gear on the trans brake with 9-10 psi of boost built at whatever rpm my two step is set at (usually 3600-3900rpm sometimes 3400 if I'm on street tires and it still builds 10 psi) and I let off the footbrake, floor it and wait for the last amber and let off the trans brake button.
This has worked wonders for me being able to footbrake the car in 3rd and only have one motion to set the t brake really and thats down shifting my rachet shifter which is pretty easy. Only thing I am encountering now is getting the suspension to settle on the hard street tires I have been running since I've been too lazy to put on my hoosiers at the track.
08-24-2011, 03:42 PM
#28
That is due to Jake's Transbrake that works off of the 2-3 solenoid. I would have to double check but I think he is the only one setup like that.
I will have to mess with staging the next time out. I know on the brake and two step I can build 6#'s in about 1-1.5 seconds which got me a 1.57 60' the other night (best 60' to date) But I am wanting to leave a little bit harder off of the line.
I will have to mess with staging the next time out. I know on the brake and two step I can build 6#'s in about 1-1.5 seconds which got me a 1.57 60' the other night (best 60' to date) But I am wanting to leave a little bit harder off of the line.
08-24-2011, 07:34 PM
#29
Also keep in mind if you are testing and tuning that just as long as the tranbrake builds boost decently fast that you can footbrake it to the best of your ability and use a 2 step on the transbrake to limit rpm and launch that way. It wouldnt work very well for cutting lights, but not everyone is worried about that.
08-25-2011, 07:16 AM
#30
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I have the low rpm of my 2 step hooked to my foot brake. Once I Push the trans brake button it goes to the high rpm and over rides the low rpm. Then I still have my rev limiter in the pcm
08-25-2011, 12:12 PM
#32
The "pros" have 4 limiters. They have one for the burnout activated on the line lock usually pretty high (fuel and spark cut). One for the foot brake to pre stage (spark only) set the lowest to get 1-3 psi. One for the tbrake set below the max stall on converter (spark only). And finally the main limiter set at redline (spark and fuel).
So you trip the first bulb and floor it with foot on the foot brake hard at whatever RPM you need to build that first little bit of boost and creep into the 2nd light. Hit the tbrake and release the footbrake which switches you over to the higher limiter then launch. The first time that you do this, let go of the foot brake real easy. Some tbrakes will roll further than others before catching. You don't want to let off entirely off the foot brake and bang that tbrake if it has a bunch of rollout or the car will be rocking back and forth when you release the tbrake on launch.
I got a buddy with a T-Type and XFI. He has a "stutter" button on his tbrake so he only uses one limiter for the prestage and the stage as he does it all with the tbrake. He prestages on the first bulb and gets up on the tbrake and then presses the stutter button to creep into the 2nd bulb with the tbrake still engaged. It pulses the tbrake solenoid real fast which allows the car to creep forward on the 2 step. Not sure how abusive if at all this is to the trans though.
So you trip the first bulb and floor it with foot on the foot brake hard at whatever RPM you need to build that first little bit of boost and creep into the 2nd light. Hit the tbrake and release the footbrake which switches you over to the higher limiter then launch. The first time that you do this, let go of the foot brake real easy. Some tbrakes will roll further than others before catching. You don't want to let off entirely off the foot brake and bang that tbrake if it has a bunch of rollout or the car will be rocking back and forth when you release the tbrake on launch.
I got a buddy with a T-Type and XFI. He has a "stutter" button on his tbrake so he only uses one limiter for the prestage and the stage as he does it all with the tbrake. He prestages on the first bulb and gets up on the tbrake and then presses the stutter button to creep into the 2nd bulb with the tbrake still engaged. It pulses the tbrake solenoid real fast which allows the car to creep forward on the 2 step. Not sure how abusive if at all this is to the trans though.
08-25-2011, 12:16 PM
#33
I got a buddy with a T-Type and XFI. He has a "stutter" button on his tbrake so he only uses one limiter for the prestage and the stage as he does it all with the tbrake. He prestages on the first bulb and gets up on the tbrake and then presses the stutter button to creep into the 2nd bulb with the tbrake still engaged. It pulses the tbrake solenoid real fast which allows the car to creep forward on the 2 step. Not sure how abusive if at all this is to the trans though.
08-25-2011, 06:27 PM
#34
Well I have the MSD 8733 two step set at 3400 right now and need to be below 2200 for it to activate. A little to low i think to build boost on the footbrake and then stage and try the transbrake on the two step. I am running the stock PCM for now until I get into a better turbo and get the car to NRC for the cage and everything.
08-25-2011, 08:14 PM
#35
Setup:
Wrap your pipes
coat or wrap your headers
Buy a quality turbo blanket
Tuning:
A/F 12.75 - 13:1
up the timing to bring the boost in quicker
You need 2 rev limiters to stage
depending on how big the turbo in relation to the motor is determines how you stage the car...
Stage routine for a fast spooling setup:
2 step low 350-400 rpms lower than high
light top bulb, shallow stage
bring the car up on the 2 step low
wait a solid 2 - 3 count
roll in and stage, activate tranbrake or 2 step high
Stage routine on a slow spooling setup
2 step low 200-250 rpms lower than the high
spotter will pull you within 3" of the pre-stage beams
bring the car up on the 2 step low
once on the chip, wait 1-2 count
roll in and prestage, wait 1-2 count
stage, activate high limiter/transbrake
Boost needs to be flatlined for consistency, this method will provide it.
Things to help spooling...
correct size header
correct size crossover tube
advance the cam
add timing
lean it out
add compression
nitrous
thinner tranny fluid
less agressive stator
less converter line pressure
Wrap your pipes
coat or wrap your headers
Buy a quality turbo blanket
Tuning:
A/F 12.75 - 13:1
up the timing to bring the boost in quicker
You need 2 rev limiters to stage
depending on how big the turbo in relation to the motor is determines how you stage the car...
Stage routine for a fast spooling setup:
2 step low 350-400 rpms lower than high
light top bulb, shallow stage
bring the car up on the 2 step low
wait a solid 2 - 3 count
roll in and stage, activate tranbrake or 2 step high
Stage routine on a slow spooling setup
2 step low 200-250 rpms lower than the high
spotter will pull you within 3" of the pre-stage beams
bring the car up on the 2 step low
once on the chip, wait 1-2 count
roll in and prestage, wait 1-2 count
stage, activate high limiter/transbrake
Boost needs to be flatlined for consistency, this method will provide it.
Things to help spooling...
correct size header
correct size crossover tube
advance the cam
add timing
lean it out
add compression
nitrous
thinner tranny fluid
less agressive stator
less converter line pressure
08-25-2011, 09:49 PM
#38
Yea there is no way I can footbrake my car to 3200rpm no way in hell unless I had the dual calipers in the rear.
I've found my salvation in staging by lucking out with the way jakes t brake works. Building boost is too easy in 3rd gear and then all I do is downshift to 1st from 2nd and I'm on the brake.
I did this tonight and cut my best lights ever a .38 and a .52. I am able to build 7psi on the footbrake now and as soon as I go from footbrake to transbrake its at 10psi which is where I launch. Also ran my best PB to date with a 6.68@108 with this method.
I've found my salvation in staging by lucking out with the way jakes t brake works. Building boost is too easy in 3rd gear and then all I do is downshift to 1st from 2nd and I'm on the brake.
I did this tonight and cut my best lights ever a .38 and a .52. I am able to build 7psi on the footbrake now and as soon as I go from footbrake to transbrake its at 10psi which is where I launch. Also ran my best PB to date with a 6.68@108 with this method.
08-26-2011, 08:10 AM
#39
Nothing is impossible. Most if not all fast turbo cars have dual rear calipers. I bet if you put dual rear calipers on the back, you would be fine. My car makes a ton of power and I can footbrake it to 4000rpms and 5# of boost. If your running stock calipers, make some brackets and throw a set on.
08-26-2011, 08:57 AM
#40
Nothing is impossible. Most if not all fast turbo cars have dual rear calipers. I bet if you put dual rear calipers on the back, you would be fine. My car makes a ton of power and I can footbrake it to 4000rpms and 5# of boost. If your running stock calipers, make some brackets and throw a set on.