VGT on an LS
02-11-2010, 11:28 AM
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VGT on an LS This is from a diesel performance forum. I think this would be interesting to try on an LS series motor. How do you guys feel?
I installed a Garrett VGT off a 6.0 Powerstroke on my 12 valve Cummins using a Fleece Performance TurboBrake as a controller. It took some time to tune it but we finally got it driving perfect. I doubled my boost and the truck accelerates much faster. Truck is a stock so i didn't have much to work with but its amazing the difference. The controller uses a turbo dutycycle table, boost vs rpm with a throttle position kicker for accels/deccels. It has two lookup tables so you can run different maps based on your driving. there is also a manual adjust so i can dial slightly more or less vane position (boost). Its amazing the difference on the freeway. 70mph and 3psi, 800degrees egt. Dial it to 8psi and it drops to 650degrees. Pinch it shut on the freeway and you can hear go into orbit. Release it instantly from 10psi and the sound it makes from decompressing is crazy.
Here is a video of a different truck that has a similar controller. You can hear the turbo 'spool' as he adjusts the vane postion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXZwPzjDfxs
I installed a Garrett VGT off a 6.0 Powerstroke on my 12 valve Cummins using a Fleece Performance TurboBrake as a controller. It took some time to tune it but we finally got it driving perfect. I doubled my boost and the truck accelerates much faster. Truck is a stock so i didn't have much to work with but its amazing the difference. The controller uses a turbo dutycycle table, boost vs rpm with a throttle position kicker for accels/deccels. It has two lookup tables so you can run different maps based on your driving. there is also a manual adjust so i can dial slightly more or less vane position (boost). Its amazing the difference on the freeway. 70mph and 3psi, 800degrees egt. Dial it to 8psi and it drops to 650degrees. Pinch it shut on the freeway and you can hear go into orbit. Release it instantly from 10psi and the sound it makes from decompressing is crazy.
Here is a video of a different truck that has a similar controller. You can hear the turbo 'spool' as he adjusts the vane postion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXZwPzjDfxs
Last edited by slangegger; 02-11-2010 at 11:41 AM.
02-11-2010, 01:14 PM
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I run VGT on my little 231 v6's that I mod out here. I am going to be in the high 10 range, and a buddy of mine has one trapping nearly 130 with a 3000lb car. We barely even have $1000 invested into the motor build, turbo setup, and transmissions.
Long story short, benefits are awesome, and the price is unbeatable.
The "fancy controller" stuff is a bit more useful on the trucks than it is us gassers, but a simple boost vs turbo size controller will offer a good amount of performance tuning. The diesel stuff really benefits from the ability to "dial" boost pressure vs flow.. But the fact that we can make the turbo really small for quick spool, then crack it wide open at full boost gives great spool characteristics and really kicksup the ability to flow air at wot.
Long story short, benefits are awesome, and the price is unbeatable.
The "fancy controller" stuff is a bit more useful on the trucks than it is us gassers, but a simple boost vs turbo size controller will offer a good amount of performance tuning. The diesel stuff really benefits from the ability to "dial" boost pressure vs flow.. But the fact that we can make the turbo really small for quick spool, then crack it wide open at full boost gives great spool characteristics and really kicksup the ability to flow air at wot.
02-11-2010, 03:54 PM
#3
My quick spool valve setup makes my S380 turbo into a variable A/R and it works great! The benefits of being able to control the A/R of a turbo on the street are huge. The smallest a/r my turbo sees is .625 and 1.25 all the way open. It gradually opens starting at 4psi and is full open by 11psi.
02-12-2010, 06:45 AM
#4
Zombie, Ithink the quick spool idea is great, but a true VGT/VNT would be amazing! have you any ideas what your EGTs are at the turbo Zombie? just wondering if there is enough of a temp drop not to cause any problems.
What is the size of the Garrett VGT off the 6.0 Powerstroke???
Just thinking it would be REALLY cool if someone could sell a rear mount kit that could do everyhting form 650-1000bhp with no upgrades or messing about.
Chris.
What is the size of the Garrett VGT off the 6.0 Powerstroke???
Just thinking it would be REALLY cool if someone could sell a rear mount kit that could do everyhting form 650-1000bhp with no upgrades or messing about.
Chris.
02-12-2010, 06:54 AM
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I have a holset vgt turbo on my car in sig. internal vane collar is controlled by a mechanical wastegate actuator. still working out some bugs though. have pics somewhere.
I think a vgt turbo would be awesome on any LSx.
my setup achieves boost at idle! 10 psi at 1500, 20 psi at 2000 rpm. (3400 rpm max)
love it!
I think a vgt turbo would be awesome on any LSx.
my setup achieves boost at idle! 10 psi at 1500, 20 psi at 2000 rpm. (3400 rpm max)
love it!
02-12-2010, 12:41 PM
#6
I have a holset vgt turbo on my car in sig. internal vane collar is controlled by a mechanical wastegate actuator. still working out some bugs though. have pics somewhere.
I think a vgt turbo would be awesome on any LSx.
my setup achieves boost at idle! 10 psi at 1500, 20 psi at 2000 rpm. (3400 rpm max)
love it!
I think a vgt turbo would be awesome on any LSx.
my setup achieves boost at idle! 10 psi at 1500, 20 psi at 2000 rpm. (3400 rpm max)
love it!
02-12-2010, 12:55 PM
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Zombie, Ithink the quick spool idea is great, but a true VGT/VNT would be amazing! have you any ideas what your EGTs are at the turbo Zombie? just wondering if there is enough of a temp drop not to cause any problems.
What is the size of the Garrett VGT off the 6.0 Powerstroke???
Just thinking it would be REALLY cool if someone could sell a rear mount kit that could do everyhting form 650-1000bhp with no upgrades or messing about.
Chris.
What is the size of the Garrett VGT off the 6.0 Powerstroke???
Just thinking it would be REALLY cool if someone could sell a rear mount kit that could do everyhting form 650-1000bhp with no upgrades or messing about.
Chris.
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02-15-2010, 09:34 AM
#9
VGT's are cool technology, but not very reliable yet. We see the variable vane turbos here all the time for rebuilds. They are not reliable under a high performance application yet. We are working a variable GT45 but need to work some other problems out 1st. Same problem plague's the larger units as the smaller ones as well.
02-17-2010, 07:59 PM
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VGT's are cool technology, but not very reliable yet. We see the variable vane turbos here all the time for rebuilds. They are not reliable under a high performance application yet. We are working a variable GT45 but need to work some other problems out 1st. Same problem plague's the larger units as the smaller ones as well.
"VGT" turbos work differently than "VNT". the Holset vgts have an internal collar that slides forward and back to physically change the effective housing area.
VNTs work by changing the pitch of small air foils surrounding the turbine, therefore slowing/speeding the velocity of the turbine.
very similar in some ways.
either way they are controlled by a computer based actuator/gear. The coolant hookup is also to keep these electronics cool. the issue with why they go bad has mostly been attributed to the soot/carbon buildup, causing the "variable" part of the turbo to bind/move less freely, causing more amperage to move, then burning up the wore-out electronics.
Dodge/Ram/Fiat whatever..lol dealerships are replacing the whole turbo to band-aid the situation. They even redesigned the Holset VGTs to include a hardened ring that yes...scrapes, the internal collar to keep from having too much carbon build up.
me and a few guys are working on how we can reduce this problem. but on a gas engine that doesnt have the soot of Diesel, should not have these issues.
Fleece Diesel performance is finishing up a Stanalone controller for the VGT turbos, that will only need an input of MAP and RPM to operate.
for me, I just removed the oem electronic VGT control system in favor of a mechanical wastegate actuator that acts on the collar "arm" outside the turbo center cartridge.
02-18-2010, 07:11 AM
#12
no issues here, yet.
"VGT" turbos work differently than "VNT". the Holset vgts have an internal collar that slides forward and back to physically change the effective housing area.
VNTs work by changing the pitch of small air foils surrounding the turbine, therefore slowing/speeding the velocity of the turbine.
very similar in some ways.
either way they are controlled by a computer based actuator/gear. The coolant hookup is also to keep these electronics cool. the issue with why they go bad has mostly been attributed to the soot/carbon buildup, causing the "variable" part of the turbo to bind/move less freely, causing more amperage to move, then burning up the wore-out electronics.
Dodge/Ram/Fiat whatever..lol dealerships are replacing the whole turbo to band-aid the situation. They even redesigned the Holset VGTs to include a hardened ring that yes...scrapes, the internal collar to keep from having too much carbon build up.
me and a few guys are working on how we can reduce this problem. but on a gas engine that doesnt have the soot of Diesel, should not have these issues.
Fleece Diesel performance is finishing up a Stanalone controller for the VGT turbos, that will only need an input of MAP and RPM to operate.
for me, I just removed the oem electronic VGT control system in favor of a mechanical wastegate actuator that acts on the collar "arm" outside the turbo center cartridge.
"VGT" turbos work differently than "VNT". the Holset vgts have an internal collar that slides forward and back to physically change the effective housing area.
VNTs work by changing the pitch of small air foils surrounding the turbine, therefore slowing/speeding the velocity of the turbine.
very similar in some ways.
either way they are controlled by a computer based actuator/gear. The coolant hookup is also to keep these electronics cool. the issue with why they go bad has mostly been attributed to the soot/carbon buildup, causing the "variable" part of the turbo to bind/move less freely, causing more amperage to move, then burning up the wore-out electronics.
Dodge/Ram/Fiat whatever..lol dealerships are replacing the whole turbo to band-aid the situation. They even redesigned the Holset VGTs to include a hardened ring that yes...scrapes, the internal collar to keep from having too much carbon build up.
me and a few guys are working on how we can reduce this problem. but on a gas engine that doesnt have the soot of Diesel, should not have these issues.
Fleece Diesel performance is finishing up a Stanalone controller for the VGT turbos, that will only need an input of MAP and RPM to operate.
for me, I just removed the oem electronic VGT control system in favor of a mechanical wastegate actuator that acts on the collar "arm" outside the turbo center cartridge.
That turbine housing is MASSIVE! lol i would guess this would cause some fitment issues in alot of aplications. still there may be a waty to package a pair of them in a rear mounted setup......
how uis the acutaor setup on your setup? dose it keep the VNT closed until you hiot full boost, or a certian boost presure? do you run a weastgate of any kind?
Cheers
Chris.
03-14-2010, 11:05 PM
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Thats what i was thinking! i would have thought the major problems with the VGT/VNT would be with carbon build up. obviously a gas engine will burn much claener and this should reduce the problem.
That turbine housing is MASSIVE! lol i would guess this would cause some fitment issues in alot of aplications. still there may be a waty to package a pair of them in a rear mounted setup......
how uis the acutaor setup on your setup? dose it keep the VNT closed until you hiot full boost, or a certian boost presure? do you run a weastgate of any kind?
Cheers
Chris.
That turbine housing is MASSIVE! lol i would guess this would cause some fitment issues in alot of aplications. still there may be a waty to package a pair of them in a rear mounted setup......
how uis the acutaor setup on your setup? dose it keep the VNT closed until you hiot full boost, or a certian boost presure? do you run a weastgate of any kind?
Cheers
Chris.
my mechanical actuator design needs alot of work. It takes alot of force to move the arm the full range and my lever binds as well. so currently the actuator is not hooked up, and the arm is in a fixed position.
here's a pic of my setup. I would not copy this setup, but I am posting it so somebody can improve on it and maybe share their experiences. its close and the geometry is right,but....
^^this is the Holset He351VE turbocharger^^
fwiw my boost range is 8-15 psi normally, similar to a low comp LSx
yes i also run an external 40mm Synapse wastegate to control the boost(in the first pic I posted)
-cody
After looking at these pics I concluded this turbo is larger than my engine 
