cooling fans drawing too much amperage , options?
07-07-2011, 02:42 PM
#41
thats how they are wired and set now, but they are on pretty much all the time because if the wideband reads higher than 13.0 (which is during 99% of street driving, WOT is pretty much the only time is drops below) the voltage signal being sent by the wideband through the ac pressure switch triggers the pcm to turn the fans on high. again this is something i found out after i finished the build, i would have never had wired it like this if i had known otherwise
so my concern is i dont want to go through the hassle of rewiring the wideband signal if im going to end up having to re wire the fans anyways.
just kinda thinking out loud on how to fix this and looking for opinions
so my concern is i dont want to go through the hassle of rewiring the wideband signal if im going to end up having to re wire the fans anyways.
just kinda thinking out loud on how to fix this and looking for opinions
But..
.IF you had looked at your FAN options you would have noticed that there is an AC PSI ON value (minimum PSI to turn the fans on)... you max that out to 500psi with your tuner... and guess what? any voltage you send through the AC pressure switch wire to the ECM with your wideband, will NOT trigger high fans On...
ah well..
too late now, but for someone else reading...
Also, not using the ECM signal you then lose the ability to use After ignition shutoff fan time runs, low and high speeds and dual temp / AC speed and time control.
Last edited by vmapper; 07-07-2011 at 03:02 PM.
07-07-2011, 02:59 PM
#42
I know for starting or initial draw 50% or more of the rating to snap the fuse. so your drawing 60Amps to snap a 40. Pending when the fuse lets go
Slow blow imo would suffice for these..and a slightly higher rating.
Only reason why it would snap is a) Voltage system is running low b) thin wire c) too long wire.
lets look at the basics. P = IV ... we know this is a 265Watt Bosch motor (based off the spec sheet) and we know voltage... so what is the current at HIGH Fan function?
265 = I (13.5V)
I = 19.63 A
w/14V = 18.93A
w/14.5V = 18.27A
w/12V = 22.02A - **
so, unless the fans are running high with 12v in the system... upping the fuse to a slow blow 50A or 45A(if they exist) is imo safe with the stock wiring and would not snap any fuses and would save the hasstle of losing the ECM control and having to wire in relays etc.
What is stock wiring AWG? 14?
Thoughts? Dis-agree?
Last edited by vmapper; 07-07-2011 at 03:56 PM. Reason: added stock wiring question
07-07-2011, 04:29 PM
#43
I used the supplied relays with my 2200 cfm derales and trigger them off my stock fan signals. I have full control of these fans through the ecu and it was very simple, I think the relays use 30 amp fuses. The only problem I've had so far is the crappy fuser holder their relay comes with. Once I replaced that these fans kick ***, even sitting in traffic in 90 degree temps my secondary fan never kicks on.
07-07-2011, 04:38 PM
#44
I used the supplied relays with my 2200 cfm derales and trigger them off my stock fan signals. I have full control of these fans through the ecu and it was very simple, I think the relays use 30 amp fuses. The only problem I've had so far is the crappy fuser holder their relay comes with. Once I replaced that these fans kick ***, even sitting in traffic in 90 degree temps my secondary fan never kicks on.
Then you do not have full control. - simply because your powering the fans directly from the battery never putting the fans in series with each other.
It is Impossible you have Low fan speed ability as the car utilizes three (3) relays to put the fans in either Series or Parallel (low and high).
With that being said, I don't understand how you have ONE fan on and the other OFF? (you are aware that LOW or fan 1 on the ECM engages BOTH fans? -in series, at half the speed) and high is BOTH on in Parallel at full rpm)?
If your using supplied relays and using the power from the stock wiring to trigger these relays, you are only using high, basically ON or off is all you have...
When I mean FULL control, I mean FULL control, not just when it clicks on based on ECT.
you do NOT have the 'turn off ignition' fan run on for x amount of seconds after car is off ability or any low fan ability this way or any FULL ECM control you think you may have...
Is there something Im drastically missing?
Have you ever had your second fan on? (or both on at the same time?)
Last edited by vmapper; 07-07-2011 at 05:06 PM. Reason: added end question...
07-07-2011, 05:08 PM
#45
LS1 cars do not have high and low speed fan rpm settings. Fan 1 only turns on 1 fan even in stock form which is set at 196 degrees and shuts off at 192 degrees. Fan 2 kicks on both fans at 206 degrees and shuts off at 202. There is no progressive rpm on the LS1 computers, you must be refering to an 05+ ECU. Yes I have full control of my fans and both of them work as they are supposed to. With the VCM scanner I can enable both fans but my car doesn't get up to 206 degrees to enable both fans during normal use.
07-07-2011, 07:18 PM
#46
I know this is old...
But..
.IF you had looked at your FAN options you would have noticed that there is an AC PSI ON value (minimum PSI to turn the fans on)... you max that out to 500psi with your tuner... and guess what? any voltage you send through the AC pressure switch wire to the ECM with your wideband, will NOT trigger high fans On...
ah well..
too late now, but for someone else reading...
Also, not using the ECM signal you then lose the ability to use After ignition shutoff fan time runs, low and high speeds and dual temp / AC speed and time control.
But..
.IF you had looked at your FAN options you would have noticed that there is an AC PSI ON value (minimum PSI to turn the fans on)... you max that out to 500psi with your tuner... and guess what? any voltage you send through the AC pressure switch wire to the ECM with your wideband, will NOT trigger high fans On...
ah well..
too late now, but for someone else reading...
Also, not using the ECM signal you then lose the ability to use After ignition shutoff fan time runs, low and high speeds and dual temp / AC speed and time control.
07-07-2011, 08:01 PM
#47
LS1 cars do not have high and low speed fan rpm settings. Fan 1 only turns on 1 fan even in stock form which is set at 196 degrees and shuts off at 192 degrees. Fan 2 kicks on both fans at 206 degrees and shuts off at 202. There is no progressive rpm on the LS1 computers, you must be refering to an 05+ ECU. Yes I have full control of my fans and both of them work as they are supposed to. With the VCM scanner I can enable both fans but my car doesn't get up to 206 degrees to enable both fans during normal use.
Meaning, FAN 1 = both fans but half the voltage = both turn low speed...
that is the factory setting.
Many mistake Fan 1 being ONE fan and Fan 2 being the other, Fan 1 really means = Both at Low speed (or in series)... you will have Three Relays in your fuse /relay box.
Glad to hear that both turn on, one would be triggered with 6V if thats the case...
ALSO, this is from a 1999 TA .. yes, you DO have LOW speed controls..I see it in HPtuners.
As seen here, This is the LOW speed fan Delay after ignition setting off..
Also on top of this, caddillac's have 30A fuses for each fan.. good to know for some perhaps, lucky there I guess...
Last edited by vmapper; 07-07-2011 at 08:11 PM.
07-07-2011, 08:08 PM
#48
You sure do sir. you have AC? your ECM looks at pressure for the fan manipulation then
All the ECMs have this function, just depends which archaic version of HP software you are running... (if its not there, its just not in the software the old version you must be using... but ITS there in the ECM)..
again... 1999 TA:
9360361 OS - just in case you didn't beleive me.
Anyways, neither here nor there... You have already done it... But I posted these answers for anyone else reading this thread.
All the ECMs have this function, just depends which archaic version of HP software you are running... (if its not there, its just not in the software the old version you must be using... but ITS there in the ECM)..
again... 1999 TA:
9360361 OS - just in case you didn't beleive me.
Anyways, neither here nor there... You have already done it... But I posted these answers for anyone else reading this thread.
07-07-2011, 08:34 PM
#49
i do not have a 99 OS on my car, its an 01 OS due to an issue that was found during the initial tune
and i do not claim to be anything that resembles an expert on hpt but unless im missing something i dont see it or know how to pull it up
either way my fans function flawlessly and temps are well in check even with it 100+ outside right now
and i do not claim to be anything that resembles an expert on hpt but unless im missing something i dont see it or know how to pull it up
either way my fans function flawlessly and temps are well in check even with it 100+ outside right now
Last edited by Tally TransAm; 07-07-2011 at 08:41 PM.
07-08-2011, 02:19 AM
#50
Im looking at an LS1 schematic, and there are Three solenoids though...
Meaning, FAN 1 = both fans but half the voltage = both turn low speed...
that is the factory setting.
Many mistake Fan 1 being ONE fan and Fan 2 being the other, Fan 1 really means = Both at Low speed (or in series)... you will have Three Relays in your fuse /relay box.
Glad to hear that both turn on, one would be triggered with 6V if thats the case...
ALSO, this is from a 1999 TA .. yes, you DO have LOW speed controls..I see it in HPtuners.
As seen here, This is the LOW speed fan Delay after ignition setting off..
Also on top of this, caddillac's have 30A fuses for each fan.. good to know for some perhaps, lucky there I guess...
Meaning, FAN 1 = both fans but half the voltage = both turn low speed...
that is the factory setting.
Many mistake Fan 1 being ONE fan and Fan 2 being the other, Fan 1 really means = Both at Low speed (or in series)... you will have Three Relays in your fuse /relay box.
Glad to hear that both turn on, one would be triggered with 6V if thats the case...
ALSO, this is from a 1999 TA .. yes, you DO have LOW speed controls..I see it in HPtuners.
As seen here, This is the LOW speed fan Delay after ignition setting off..
Also on top of this, caddillac's have 30A fuses for each fan.. good to know for some perhaps, lucky there I guess...
You are probably right about both fans running on Fan 1 setting. How would I wire my fans so both turn on at Fan1 half speed? The item you circled in your picture is the fan control settings for keeping your fans on after you shut your ignition off. The way I have them set up it seems I will just wear out one fan over time instead of even wear on both fans. My buddy did this on his old car and it was really annoying, keeping the fans on for x amount of seconds if above x coolant temp when you shut the car off.
07-08-2011, 01:18 PM
#51
You are probably right about both fans running on Fan 1 setting. How would I wire my fans so both turn on at Fan1 half speed? The item you circled in your picture is the fan control settings for keeping your fans on after you shut your ignition off. The way I have them set up it seems I will just wear out one fan over time instead of even wear on both fans. My buddy did this on his old car and it was really annoying, keeping the fans on for x amount of seconds if above x coolant temp when you shut the car off.
The item I circled is for keeping the FANS on AFTER you shut the car off, YES...because the ECM will ONLY allow LOW FAN speed AFTER you shut the car off...
preventing battery drain is my guess. so Unless you have the Low/high properly set up, you are NOT going to be able to use after you shut off. You really need to know how the ECM works ... it was just an example.. There are other reasons other than just that.
The idea to RUN both fans for one is much better cooling effect when pushing air through the entire surface of the rad rather than one area.
again, I just posted all of this to let anyone know that this can be properly done to a stock configuration.
