Guys running WILSON intake manifolds come in
07-02-2010, 06:48 AM
#22
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so shawn, after you talk about bad port with fi and still make power.
what would a person see going from say a ls2 intake to a marcella? or to a custum sheet metal intake. or hell going from a single plan to the marcella?
i am maining asking cause is it worth 3k? or can you get just as good flow from a single plan?
what would a person see going from say a ls2 intake to a marcella? or to a custum sheet metal intake. or hell going from a single plan to the marcella?
i am maining asking cause is it worth 3k? or can you get just as good flow from a single plan?
Let me break this down as simple as possible.Say you are running a single turbo car that makes 1200hp.More than likely you are running one wideband o2 after the turbo and no egt's.So you are tuning based off the average of all the cylinders.Now 90% of the intakes out there have atleast a 10% difference in airflow from the worst cylinders to the best on a fi application.So now you have 2 cylinders running 5% rich and 2 other 5% lean and the others somewhere in between.The cylinders that are 5% rich are going to be down on power due to over fueling and the ones 5% lean could be in danger of detonation or scoring the piston wall or burning a valve.If you have a manifold that is 3% or less,now all the cylinders are running alot closer together-the ones that were rich are making more power and the ones that were lean are not in harms way anymore.
we've learned alot about intake manifold design over the years through lots of dyno testing,in cylinder pressure test equipment really shows alot that other data won't show.I can tell you this-while there may be alot of people making sheetmetal intakes-i've only found one that understands airflow on a fi application-and that's why we use his stuff exclusively.
07-02-2010, 07:07 AM
#23
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from all the diff. engines and combos yall have ran through....what intake has the best airflow distribution/closest egt's for the average person/build???
fast, ls6, single plane etc..
fast, ls6, single plane etc..
07-02-2010, 07:50 AM
#24
jsut so we are on the same page. EGT exhaust gas temp? correct? well then can't i just put that sensor in? like i have seen the kits with 8 temp probs.
or are you saying with the sheetmetal i will have a intake that is 3% and doesnt need the EGT stuff?
or are you saying with the sheetmetal i will have a intake that is 3% and doesnt need the EGT stuff?
is it worth 3k-well what's your engine worth?
Let me break this down as simple as possible.Say you are running a single turbo car that makes 1200hp.More than likely you are running one wideband o2 after the turbo and no egt's.So you are tuning based off the average of all the cylinders.Now 90% of the intakes out there have atleast a 10% difference in airflow from the worst cylinders to the best on a fi application.So now you have 2 cylinders running 5% rich and 2 other 5% lean and the others somewhere in between.The cylinders that are 5% rich are going to be down on power due to over fueling and the ones 5% lean could be in danger of detonation or scoring the piston wall or burning a valve.If you have a manifold that is 3% or less,now all the cylinders are running alot closer together-the ones that were rich are making more power and the ones that were lean are not in harms way anymore.
we've learned alot about intake manifold design over the years through lots of dyno testing,in cylinder pressure test equipment really shows alot that other data won't show.I can tell you this-while there may be alot of people making sheetmetal intakes-i've only found one that understands airflow on a fi application-and that's why we use his stuff exclusively.
Let me break this down as simple as possible.Say you are running a single turbo car that makes 1200hp.More than likely you are running one wideband o2 after the turbo and no egt's.So you are tuning based off the average of all the cylinders.Now 90% of the intakes out there have atleast a 10% difference in airflow from the worst cylinders to the best on a fi application.So now you have 2 cylinders running 5% rich and 2 other 5% lean and the others somewhere in between.The cylinders that are 5% rich are going to be down on power due to over fueling and the ones 5% lean could be in danger of detonation or scoring the piston wall or burning a valve.If you have a manifold that is 3% or less,now all the cylinders are running alot closer together-the ones that were rich are making more power and the ones that were lean are not in harms way anymore.
we've learned alot about intake manifold design over the years through lots of dyno testing,in cylinder pressure test equipment really shows alot that other data won't show.I can tell you this-while there may be alot of people making sheetmetal intakes-i've only found one that understands airflow on a fi application-and that's why we use his stuff exclusively.
07-02-2010, 02:14 PM
#26
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I would love an intake like that, for looks alone. I wouldnt even care if it made more or less power !!
While there is no comparison, its the very reason I chose a carb intake + fabricated elbow. For looks. I dont believe for one second it performs better than a stock LS6 intake for my needs.
It just looks nicer.
In the right hands, aluminium fabrication really is a work of art.
07-02-2010, 02:29 PM
#27
07-02-2010, 07:07 PM
#32
These short runner, sheetmetal intakes always move the powerband way up. Which equals pig off boost. For a max effort race car, it's required but otherwise you will be sacrificing streetable performance for bling. That is not the case with the Wilson with it's longer billet CNC'd runners. Pretty much the same approach as the FAST 102's but in aluminum.
07-02-2010, 08:24 PM
#33
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These short runner, sheetmetal intakes always move the powerband way up. Which equals pig off boost. For a max effort race car, it's required but otherwise you will be sacrificing streetable performance for bling. That is not the case with the Wilson with it's longer billet CNC'd runners. Pretty much the same approach as the FAST 102's but in aluminum.
07-02-2010, 09:07 PM
#35
These short runner, sheetmetal intakes always move the powerband way up. Which equals pig off boost. For a max effort race car, it's required but otherwise you will be sacrificing streetable performance for bling. That is not the case with the Wilson with it's longer billet CNC'd runners. Pretty much the same approach as the FAST 102's but in aluminum.
Gonna go way out on a limb and say that the short runner intake pictured all the way to the left isn't what's on Phil's car. SN95 has a bit more head room under the hood.
07-03-2010, 03:27 AM
#37
I tend to agree with you. I'm not worried about that one bit after speaking with john marcella the other day. He basically said the one thing that is always going to limit, to an extent what he can do with any intake is the clearance under the hood. He indicated clearly in our conversation that it would be no problem to create an intake that would be responsive out of boost, yet flow nicely up top. And I think the LT1 SS hood opening(underside of the hood) will work to our benefit for some extra space to accomodate the manifold.
07-03-2010, 10:07 AM
#38
I tend to agree with you. I'm not worried about that one bit after speaking with john marcella the other day. He basically said the one thing that is always going to limit, to an extent what he can do with any intake is the clearance under the hood. He indicated clearly in our conversation that it would be no problem to create an intake that would be responsive out of boost, yet flow nicely up top. And I think the LT1 SS hood opening(underside of the hood) will work to our benefit for some extra space to accomodate the manifold.
07-03-2010, 05:05 PM
#39
Yeah meant to mention the cowl,which as you pointed out is the biggest issue in these cars with a sheetmetal intake. From what I have seen the Marcella looks like the best way to go for me. I was almost 100% sold on the wilson, but am having some doubts about it now. I can afford the Marcella or Wilson, so it just comes down to which is going to perform better with my setup.
07-03-2010, 05:30 PM
#40
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The problem isnt the hood so much as the cowl. Make sure that you try out more than one intake. No matter what you put on there first, it will feel fast. My experience with tuning cars and actually having run one (not a Marcella) on my own vehicle, they always go rich down low and a little lean up top(before tuning). We've done some head to head engine dyno testing on them as well and it shows the same thing. Again, I'm talking about the short runner design required to fit under an fbody cowl.