You can hear my turbos anytime the engine is running 
Procharge or Vortech or Twin Turbo
1.Blower car w/ 600rwh @ 6000 rpm
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
2. I think y2khawk’s under hood bling, bling, looks better then any blower setup Ive ever seen. So that kills that theory.
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
2. I think y2khawk’s under hood bling, bling, looks better then any blower setup Ive ever seen. So that kills that theory.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 3
From: NYC metro area
Originally Posted by buschman
Actually no offense to the turbos, but S/Cs look way better at car shows. Both the Vortech and the Prochrager have way more bling than the rusted manifold look of the turbo setups we have. S/Cs are way louder at idle. It's only with suffucient throttle that you can really hear a turbo setup and all it's glory. Don't get me wrong both are great and the adjustability of the turbos boost is a big bonus in my book. But let's not sell the blower short. It's cheaper, more reliable, and can deliver just as much power, cfm, and boost as any turbo.
Mike
Mike
They both have benefits and drawbacks. Both are awesome
, but it always depends on what the person prefers. I think Turbo vs Blower (in street cars, at least) will be an ongoing argument as long as we live. 
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
From: orlando, florida
[QUOTE=TTSSZ]1.Blower car w/ 600rwh @ 6000 rpm
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
Now look at the TQ of a turbo car compared to a SC car the turbo car will most likely make twice the TQ at 3500rpm then the SC car. Which on the street with decent tire makes the turbo car alot quicker IMO.
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
Now look at the TQ of a turbo car compared to a SC car the turbo car will most likely make twice the TQ at 3500rpm then the SC car. Which on the street with decent tire makes the turbo car alot quicker IMO.
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
From: North Las Vegas, NV
[QUOTE=LS1SS4ever]
Must be.
If turbo kits were not rediculas in $$ when I was looking for my "fun toy"(heads/cam/intake vs. blower vs. turbo), I would have one. Free HP is always good, but after running Kane(guy with the Z28 Turbo) I'm very happy with my purchase. 
Most forced induction guys are getting insane numbers out of their cars. Both Turbos and Blowers....do what's right for you and have fun! 
Originally Posted by DarkblueTA
All I'm going to say is read this .........
00 Turbo Z28 vs 98 Procharged Trans Am
So what I understand they are equal
00 Turbo Z28 vs 98 Procharged Trans Am
So what I understand they are equal
Must be.
If turbo kits were not rediculas in $$ when I was looking for my "fun toy"(heads/cam/intake vs. blower vs. turbo), I would have one. Free HP is always good, but after running Kane(guy with the Z28 Turbo) I'm very happy with my purchase. Most forced induction guys are getting insane numbers out of their cars. Both Turbos and Blowers....do what's right for you and have fun! TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
From: North Las Vegas, NV
[QUOTE=MYTURBOT/A]
Then why did his 5# turbo z28 vs my 4# procharger trans am run side by side? Both run Stage 3 Spec clutches, both on stock 10 bolts with 3.42 gears both even have the same tires(g-Force KDWS's). Theories are great, but not always real world results.
I have NOTHING against Turbos, like I said, if they were 2K more then the procharger(read 1/2 again as much) when I was looking to buy a major toy(s), I would have one.
Originally Posted by TTSSZ
1.Blower car w/ 600rwh @ 6000 rpm
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
Now look at the TQ of a turbo car compared to a SC car the turbo car will most likely make twice the TQ at 3500rpm then the SC car. Which on the street with decent tire makes the turbo car alot quicker IMO.
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
Now look at the TQ of a turbo car compared to a SC car the turbo car will most likely make twice the TQ at 3500rpm then the SC car. Which on the street with decent tire makes the turbo car alot quicker IMO.
Then why did his 5# turbo z28 vs my 4# procharger trans am run side by side? Both run Stage 3 Spec clutches, both on stock 10 bolts with 3.42 gears both even have the same tires(g-Force KDWS's). Theories are great, but not always real world results.
I have NOTHING against Turbos, like I said, if they were 2K more then the procharger(read 1/2 again as much) when I was looking to buy a major toy(s), I would have one.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
i feel the same way...When i was ready to go FI there wasn't too many companies that sold good turbo kits. Incon went bully up, CAS wasn't shipping complete kits, And QMP was having trouble with a supplier, so that kit wasn't shipping complete and the wait was too long. And i really wanted the QMP single turbo kit too. I still like it and would still choose it over my D1SC kit. But i have to much invested in my ATI kit and with the T76 upgrade would bring the cost of the QMP kit out of reach. I was even goin to sell my ATI a few months ago for the QMP kit then i started reading about some issues, but then again the ATI kit has issues as well. But if anyone is interested in a swap for my ATI kit for the QMP kit, i'm all ears. 
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Originally Posted by DarkblueTA
Then why did his 5# turbo z28 vs my 4# procharger trans am run side by side? Both run Stage 3 Spec clutches, both on stock 10 bolts with 3.42 gears both even have the same tires(g-Force KDWS's). Theories are great, but not always real world results.
I have NOTHING against Turbos, like I said, if they were 2K more then the procharger(read 1/2 again as much) when I was looking to buy a major toy(s), I would have one.
I have NOTHING against Turbos, like I said, if they were 2K more then the procharger(read 1/2 again as much) when I was looking to buy a major toy(s), I would have one.
The turbo car you raced had an untuned STS kit correct? Does anyone know how good those systems are? I would tend to believe that set-up is inferior to most, if not all, other turbo systems, ie incon, QMP, TTi, redline, CAS, ect.
Either way I would like to see some REAL numbers from the STS system, dyno or track. It will probably run better after its tuned. Hopefully it will perform at the track as good as it does on G-tech.
Later,
Dave
Either way I would like to see some REAL numbers from the STS system, dyno or track. It will probably run better after its tuned. Hopefully it will perform at the track as good as it does on G-tech.
Later,
Dave
turbo cars, will have more area under the curve. with same boost levels as a supercharger. (exception, roots style blower, then it might be close)
area under the curve = good
Ryan
area under the curve = good
Ryan
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 0
From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by TTSSZ
1.Blower car w/ 600rwh @ 6000 rpm
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
2. I think y2khawk’s under hood bling, bling, looks better then any blower setup Ive ever seen. So that kills that theory.
Turbo car w/ 580rwh @ 6000 rpm
Who wins the race? Turbo car
Why? Full boost from 3000 to 6500 rpm
Huge power curve.
Over simplification: but this is the general idea.
Blower -------------------------------------------Turbo
1000rpm ====== 100hp----------------------1000rpm ===== 100hp
2000rpm ====== 200hp----------------------2000rpm ===== 200hp
3000rpm ====== 300hp----------------------3000rpm ===== 450hp
4000rpm ====== 400hp----------------------4000rpm ===== 495hp
5000rpm ====== 500hp----------------------5000rpm ===== 540hp
6000rpm ====== 600hp----------------------6000rpm ===== 580hp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
avg.----------- 350hp------------------------ avg. --------- 394hp
(Simply put, If you got the time and money, turbos put more power to the ground)
2. I think y2khawk’s under hood bling, bling, looks better then any blower setup Ive ever seen. So that kills that theory.
Yeah that's the average IF you are launching off of idle. I don't know about you, but I'm certainly not doing that. Don't forget who owns the top spot on the fastest FI list. Not rubbing anyone's face it it, just saying if you understand how to setup a car then either S/C or turbo can do great things for you. No clear winner at this level. The debate continues...
2. And how many people are running with harlan's setup? Just 1 that I know. Personally I'll vote for MM's car when his girl is modeling
Mike
Real hard to keep the go pedal down shift quickly and keep the go pedal down. TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
From: North Las Vegas, NV
Originally Posted by SUPER DAVES Z
The turbo car you raced had an untuned STS kit correct? Does anyone know how good those systems are? I would tend to believe that set-up is inferior to most, if not all, other turbo systems, ie incon, QMP, TTi, redline, CAS, ect.
Either way I would like to see some REAL numbers from the STS system, dyno or track. It will probably run better after its tuned. Hopefully it will perform at the track as good as it does on G-tech.
Later,
Dave
Either way I would like to see some REAL numbers from the STS system, dyno or track. It will probably run better after its tuned. Hopefully it will perform at the track as good as it does on G-tech.
Later,
Dave
Yep...and my car is also untuned. Stock programming with an FMU
Originally Posted by buschman
Yeah that's the average IF you are launching off of idle. I don't know about you, but I'm certainly not doing that. Don't forget who owns the top spot on the fastest FI list. Not rubbing anyone's face it it, just saying if you understand how to setup a car then either S/C or turbo can do great things for you. No clear winner at this level. The debate continues...
2. And how many people are running with harlan's setup? Just 1 that I know. Personally I'll vote for MM's car when his girl is modeling
Mike
2. And how many people are running with harlan's setup? Just 1 that I know. Personally I'll vote for MM's car when his girl is modeling
Mike
But most of us are on some kind of a budget. Now, the No. 2 & 3 cars on that list... both turbo, and have a significantly faster ET than the No. 4 car. Does that mean anything... prolly not, but those are the facts.I will agree with you though... my vote is for MM and his girl on the car too!
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 0
From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by Toonz
Now, the No. 2 & 3 cars on that list... both turbo, and have a significantly faster ET than the No. 4 car. Does that mean anything... prolly not, but those are the facts.
Most of the top turbo/blower guys have access to resources that us average FI guys can't touch. I don't know if Ronnie has any special resource that the turbo guys couldn't tap into.
Let's keep this debate friendly.
We know both are potent poweradders if setup correctly. I think the faster of the two weighs more heavily on smarter setup and fatter pockets than on which side of the fence you reside.Mike
Originally Posted by DarkblueTA
Yep...and my car is also untuned. Stock programming with an FMU
I do think that the big turbo guys will eventually pass a lot of blower cars. Just check out the mustang scenes.
As far as daily drivers, I have yet to see a blower car put down any numbers close to the QMP kits, incon, or CAS on stock cars. However, for 450-525hp I think the Vortech set-up requires the least hassle.
Later,
Dave
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 782
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From: North Las Vegas, NV
Originally Posted by SUPER DAVES Z
Y'all have some *****, running stock tuning with an FMU. I would be a litte scared to push that, even at 4psi.
I do think that the big turbo guys will eventually pass a lot of blower cars. Just check out the mustang scenes.
As far as daily drivers, I have yet to see a blower car put down any numbers close to the QMP kits, incon, or CAS on stock cars. However, for 450-525hp I think the Vortech set-up requires the least hassle.
Later,
Dave
I do think that the big turbo guys will eventually pass a lot of blower cars. Just check out the mustang scenes.
As far as daily drivers, I have yet to see a blower car put down any numbers close to the QMP kits, incon, or CAS on stock cars. However, for 450-525hp I think the Vortech set-up requires the least hassle.
Later,
Dave
***** of steel my friend ***** of steel all kidding aside, the car runs rich all the way through the rpm range. really rich... 
I hear ya on the daily drivers turbo kits. I'm adding the morgan motorsports pullies and a tune with injectors(while ditching the FMU). I'll let you know what I put down when I get it done.
Either way, FI is great. Stock gas mileage and lots of power...what else could you ask for??
Turbos The one advantage of a turbo is there is no parasitic drag.If you take a supercharged car and then install a turbo (and tune it to the turbo) you will make from 100-150 more horsepower.Right know I run a D-1 and make 650 RWHP on pump gas.I am thinking of going turbo to get that 100-150 H.P. loss.
Originally Posted by DarkblueTA
***** of steel my friend ***** of steel all kidding aside, the car runs rich all the way through the rpm range. really rich... I hear ya on the daily drivers turbo kits. I'm adding the morgan motorsports pullies and a tune with injectors(while ditching the FMU). I'll let you know what I put down when I get it done.
Either way, FI is great. Stock gas mileage and lots of power...what else could you ask for??
I personnally don't get that great gas milage. Prob. 16-17 in town and 23 on the highway. I have mine running real rich too.
Later,
Dave