Pretty likely picking up ERL 427 superdeck 1 likely near spring time and wondering on couple of things.

My goals for the car have never changed much wanted to run maybe 800rwhp on street and be able to maybe put down 1000rwhp on dynojet dyno. Fuel system is not really capable of supporting much more than that anyway and don't want to go to like three pumps,or huge race pump etc.

ERL has couple of options just wondering if need them. One option is the stud girdle thing...is this a good idea or not needed?

Secondly I have afr 225 and like them . But they are only 4 bolt. Should I make the swap to 6 bolt trik flo heads or should I just go with 1/2 inch arp head stud mod and keep running the afr 225. Also can I use ls9 head gaskets with the afr 225 on the 427? I am not sure am big fan of cometic. Can I use ls 9 gaskets on the trik flo 6 bolt heads with the 427? I don't think will need to go past 20psi to hit 1000rwhp and would think can get to 800rwhp at around 15psi maybe. I also do have spray so can do mix of spray and boost to get to these numbers. Would use small shot of spray like 75 or 100 likely tops.

 

Double o ring and 1/2 heads studs with the superdeck would seal dam good! Or just 1/2 head studs with the superdeck would hold 1000+ at the wheels no problem. Me personaly I like to over build stuff lol!

 

Mostly want to know about the 6 bolt heads. I like my afr and afr says no six bolts planned. So will 1/2 inch studs and mabye ls9 gaskets be ok to 1000rwhp or maybe 20psi on the superdeck with the afr 225s?
six bolt heads also going to require expensive bar lifters 4 bolt don't.But ERL did say coming out with way to change out lifters without taking off heads on the and think also way to not have to use bar lifters with the 6 bolt heads. Some maching and special adapter maybe ?
Also ls2 guys do you know if you have to do anything special with rear seal to take the boost. Do I have to install rear seal backwards?? Guess ERL uses mostly ls2 cores if you don't supply one.

 

I doubt that the 1/2 inch stud will help you to not push water. The oring will help or just swap to 6 bolt heads. We do not have orings on LS2Formula's car. Haven't pushed any water yet. Runs 7.9 @ 181 in the 1/4 at 3500# race weight. That's ALOT more than 1000 rwhp.

 

Ok you are running afr225s ? Are you oringed? Do you push water. Do you have 1/2 inch studs? Really not going to be tracking my car much just a few runs then retire it from racing then just street it at lower power likely 800rwhp is fine heck been driving it around at quite a bit less and it was pretty good. What gaskets do you run on your afr225? I screwed up and ran ls7 gaskets and they are not right with the steam holes but 408 is coming out anyway now so will do things right this time.

 

LS2Formula has 6 bolt TFS heads on an LSX block and no orings. Regular studs. I have AFR225's on an LQ9 block with regular studs. My car runs 8.9's @ 153 with a 3800# raceweight which is probably close to 1000 at the crank but more like 800-850 to the wheels. No orings on either setup.

 

It depends on the loading you plan to do on the motor.

Many are over 800 whp and nearing 1k whp with lesser heads......

So, unless you race dozens and dozens of races each year, keep the 225s.

I honestly believe the much stiffer decks on the ERL blocks will seal damn well.

Guys running LSX blocks can use stock factory LS7 heads with thin decks to make ~1100 whp as observed from the likes of LGM and a few others. (to illustrate that a stiffer block deck helps sealing)

I also recommend asking ERL.

Pinned billet mains come with the Super Deck 1.......should be plenty down there.

 

I don't think you will be able to use the LS9 gaskets on a 427. I ordered them for mine and the diameter was too small. I use LS7 gaskets, I do have an LS7 block though.

 

I just added a 5th both to my TFS 235'S ERL makes some good stuff. Try out the AFR's and get the six bolt option on the block. This way if you cant keep the heads down you can always sell the 225's and upgrade to a 6 bolt head. My experience is when ever we lifted a head from the boost it pushed in between the cylinders. So I had LME add a 5th bolt to my 427 darton sleeved LS2. We will see how it does soon enough. I use the L19 studs to help out. If you have the cash just go with the 6 bolt setup because its not fun taking a turbo kit apart for a head gasket change

 

WHATS WRONG with the 408 you have ?

 

Can I do this.Have them drill for 6 bolt and run 4 bolt for now? 4 bolt also lets me run ls7 lifters not have to go to like morel lifters. Although erl was saying they have some new product that will let you run normal lifters on 6 bolts and get the lifters out without having to take the heads off if you need to and think have to machine something on the block for that . Might be good idea. I do like my afr 225 and wish afr would take their head out of their *** and make some 6 bolt afr heads.

I won't be doing that many runs at track unless put in rollbar for sure and rollcage possibly but won't rollcage my car and might rollbar it or might just not run track after getting some hopefully 9.xxx runs with it.

My 408 is fubar I think bearings are bye bye. Cut filter and had looks like copper particles in there.oil pressure few weeks back was bad. Light came on, at hot idle it drops into the red now even with 15/50 mobile 1. So parked it and will tear out 408 over winter and go to ERL 425 superdeck one. Fix/sell off 408. I originally wanted a 427 and was going to get LSX 427 but now can go aluminum 427 from ERL and still they can take big power more than I will every need. I plan to run 800rwhp most of the time or so and 1000rwhp for mostly dyno bragging rights. So think 4 bolt heads with maybe the 1/2 inch stud option would be fine for me too but like the idea if can have it drilled for six then that might be way to go. Not sure how much trik flo 6 bolt heads are ..maybe after sell afr 225 and get the six bolt won't be that much difference? And maybe can just used ls7 lifters with ERLS new way to do that.

 

You can run the stock style lifter in the ERL block and remove them without taking the heads off.
You can run a 4 bolt head on the 6 bolt block without a problem if you want to start out that way. It sounds like you want an engine very much like Ray Litz on this sight, he can give some insight on what you are doing as I believe he has been 1000rwhp with 4 bolt heads already.

Kurt

 

So that is the erl system to run stock lifters and get to them from intake manifold galley. How much is that to add? Definitely looks handy.
Looking at some trik flo 6 bolt and they aren't too bad for price. So if going to stay under 20psi would think just 6 bolt would be ok wouldn't have to do fancy oringing stuff. Would I still need to go to 1/2 inch option with the 6 bolt heads. Again not trying to ever run past 20psi.

 

Im going to the shop today. Ill take some pics of a ERL we have there and show you how nice they are.

 

Ok but how much is that erl stock lifter option? And guys no one has answered yet if should spend the extra for girdle?

 

Ill ask because we have two of them there. I forgot what options they ordered. The girdle is your choice. It like having extra insurance it up to you. Ive seen some cars that have it making big power and some that dont. I personally have never opted to run.

 

Not sure what the lifter guides add on the block cost, but I would guess around 1,000 for that option.
The 6 bolt heads would work fine with the Fel Pro MLS gasket I believe, without any oring added at your power level. I would use the 1/2 10 bolts with the 3/8 extra bolts for your power level and never look back.
At your power level I would run the 11mm inner stud/ 10mm outer on the main caps without the girdle.

Kurt

 

What Kurt is describing is pretty much what he built me and I ran in 2008 (minus the lifter option which we do run now). Under 20 psi gives you alot of options but most people in this game "want more" in a short period of time,lol....so you may want to build for "more".

You can't go wrong with ERL...class guys to work with and TEA definitely has one of the best heads for the buck. Good luck on your build.

Mark

 

I run the 6 bolt block with the 4 bolt AFR castings (felpro MLS gaskets)that TEA ported almost 6 years ago. I used the stock sized studs with L19 studs because I didnt want to drill the AFR. My plan from the begining has been to sell the AFR and put the 6 bolt heads on. Now I dont play the boost PSI game but I can tell you my 3850# car ran 8.90's in the index classes all summer on 14 to 15psi and mid to upper 150mph. After a while and running some 17psi passes I started pushing a little water. At 20psi trapping 166 I push water every time. I am confident if I had 6 bolt heads and the felpro mls gaskets I would be fine at my power levels. When my car had about one hour on the engine with a really soft tune I made 1029rwhp at 17psi. I can assure you whatever you decide having someone like Kurt assembly your engine and matching your parts is worth every penny. If doing it right the first time is your highest priority and a level of insurance over cost then get the 6 bolt heads. My opinion is for a car that has NO cage I would NOT drive my car as fast as it would go on 15 psi AKA 900 +rwhp and you would be happy with the 4 bolts. Hell I trapped 150 the other day on 12 psi. 8 sec car with no cage= no thanks for me
You can always upgrade later If you get greedy.

 

Wow this is so familiar for me. For what it is worth my new setup that should arrive this week was designed and built for the exact power levels and reason you are looking at. Mine will be an ERL Superdeck 1, 6 bolt heads with 1/2 inch studs built by ERL with Compstar Crank, Compstar H-I Beam rods, Wiseco -23cc pistons, Total Seal AP top napier second and high tension oil rings. Clevite cam bearings, Coated ACL bearings in everything else. ERL Girdle and lifter bushings I also opted for.

I would have liked to have had the provisions to run the new lifter plate system that Kurt showed above but they haven't yet made it a public option. When I saw it on display at the shoot out they said they were still seeing if enough people were interested in it before making it an add on option. I know the Ohio boys are running it and I think they are who tested it for them, and yes it is an awesome peace. The only thing my block has due to this peace is the new larger window openings that should still allow me to change even my link bar lifters without taking off the heads. I will still be running the Morel link bar lifters which I know running the link bar style narrows you options on lifters but they still didn't have a price on this new peace so if it costs a grand then you have bought two sets of link bars almost. Since my block was already getting assembled it was going to cost way more to put it back in the CNC machine to have the last provisions made so I could even have the option to run the lifter guide plate. So I just decided to keep with my first option which was the link bars. I also figured with the lifter bushings I wouldn't have any issues running the link bar’s which before ERL made this new peace is what everyone ran. Just food for thought, believe me if I could have at least had all the provisions to run it I would but still might of used link bars. I like having options has we all do.

I know I went overboard on a lot of things but it gives me peace of mind and it is always better to build over what your goals are. I did consider having Kurt build my motor and would have except I was already to the moon over my budget and he said for what I was doing I would be just fine having ERL build it as they do great work. So I feel quite confident in their building of the shortblock. Now if I had a larger budget and was building an all out race car like the Ohio boys then Kurt would have definitely been the man no doubt. I guess the problem with everything is knowing when and where to draw the line of what you need and what you want. Check your goals and think, will I be happy with is now and down the road.

Good luck to you bud, sorry to hear the 408 didn’t work out.