GueSS Who

how does lingenfelter do it with there 650-750 rwhp TT cars. I worked with some people over at John Pages shop (21st Century) which is John lingenfelter son-in-law's shop. He builds these cars eveyday. I do know that the PCM comes with the TT setup from Indiana. I Know that they don't have a stand alone system on the cars. Anyone help out here on this. The AF ratio is flat and plenty rich all the way arcross the board. I would really like to know the most info I can get on this subject.

onfire

iTrader: (17)

LPE has Jason Haines...an exceptional engineer with hex programming data that no one else (except GM) has.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

The right way would be switching to a F.A.S.T. or Gen7 system with low impedence injectors. A 750-800rwhp engine/fuel and turbo system is a big investment, which makes F.A.S.T. or Gen7 money well spent towards protecting it. These systems are speed density, but read up to 30psi boost, have wideband o2 correction, and obviously you can vary air/fuel and timing at different boost levels and rpm.

As previously mentioned, once you max the maf and you tune with the P.E. table, your tune is only good for the conditions it was tuned in.

A turbo car with a stock ecu is a big risk IMHO. Say it is tuned for 10 psi. If you had a wastegate or boost controller problem and the engine saw 20psi (can happen real fast), the PCM is running blind (map reads nothing over ambient and maf is maxed) and still trucking along with the 10psi tune. Guess what happens to your motor?

Rob Raymer

Harlan, we (I) never did see your graph, did we? I'd like to compare it to mine if you have it available.

You make it sound like I said the alcohol/methanol had nothing to do with the power we achieved? When in fact, I brought it up!

I do find it funny though....everyone wants to know what can be done with the stock engine, with the stock PCM. So we push it to its' limits (at our own risk) and post about it. Detail for detail. And still there has to be controversy??
Keep in mind, I still drive this car EVERYDAY. Set on the 713rwhp level for the last few weeks. It still runs perfectly as it's approaching 125,000 miles!. Think what you want, it's proof enough in my book.

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

No, i never did post it. The only one i have is roll HP and roll TQ, and since the dyno and computer are still being setup in the new shop we'll all have to wait for a good one

We were more interested in getting to Thunder than printing pretty graphs at 2am.

I'm not knocking you for pushing the car, please do. I'm more bothered by the misconception that that's the norm.

It's not.

and it shouldn't be used as an example

Rob Raymer

Harlan, since you seem to know so much about the alcohol/methanol, can you tell me exactly how much HP you think it added to my numbers by using it?
We calculated that I used approximately 8oz of a 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol and methanol during one dyno pull. Is there some formula that you are using to determine this gain I'm seeing? Because admittedly, I don't know how to calculate it.

Also, pretty much everyone compares dyno numbers based on Dynojets (I would say probably 90% of all dyno discussions on this board are based on DynoJet numbers). So what's the big deal?

Lastly, how do you know my pump "ran out of fuel"? Did you consider the fact that I was running 15.9volts at the pump? If so, again how did you calculate this? Because the FP held steady on the dyno at 55-56lbs.

Thanks.

Rob Raymer

I don't even know what a "roll HP" is.

Oh, that's right. What did it run there?

Are you sure?? 'Cause it really seems like it. Maybe it's just me...I've had a bad week.

Okay, so if it's not "normal", we shouldn't post about it at all, or use it as an example? Is your car "normal"? Two MAF's??, GM Programming nobody else can get???

I'm trying to understand here....

Whistler

iTrader: (46)

I get it.... y'all are just arguing to set the mood for the make-up sex

FAST LS1

iTrader: (2)

I never understood why GM only let Lingenfelter have this information and that level of access to the PCM.
If they would just share it with the whole LS engine based community we could do a lot more with the LS engines.

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

well Rob

Considering i had the same single pump at one point, ran it with the alternator at full field long enough to smoke the bearings out of the alternator, i might know exaclty how much a 340 can flow. Did you know a stock GM alternator can put out nearly 18V We've got the same single 340 fuel system in another incon car here, guess what. It runs out of fuel at the same power level. Go figure.

So, to be honest, I guessed about 150HP worth of methanol based on the flow limits of the pump. best power for methanol is about 4.5:1, but with denatured who knows.

Roll HP and TQ, as in the mustang dyno MEASURES torque and calculates HP like any real dyno should. So i have the numbers based on roll speed, 4871 ft*lbs at 107 MPH roll speed and 805 hp @ 134 MPH. No conversion back for effective gear ratio.

I'll post it when i get it uploaded

as for Thunder, were you there?? I remember you complaining that you didn't have time to get a license. I ran 1 complete pass, it was shitty, i'll be the first to say that. 10.9 @ 140 or so, something like that. But you know what, i bearly got the car done, and busted my *** to make sure it and I was legal to run if it did go without problems. And you know what, i had issues. Drove 1100 miles for shake down passes. At least i went to support the scene. Not whine about having to be legal.

Think that'll happen again?

just so you know, i was knocking you there

And no, my car is not the norm. Neither is yours. But people like to use them as such. Just make sure they understand that. I'm already seeing the references to the QMP car making 750rwhp in the same response as "you'll be fine with that setup"

I got 2 MAF's. And a little box that looks alot like a MAFT with an extra plug. Surprise. But how many people can use that setup? You got LS1Edit, you can do what i do.

and my issue with the dynojet is not the numbers, it's the well known fact that they don't load out cars enough to give accurate airfuel readings. You ran borderline on the rolls, that's deadly on the street.

750rwhp in a 6 speed at 3600 lbs is good enough for 142+ MPH traps. When you hitting the track?

Maybe we should just save it for the track Hurry up and put in that new motor so you can't use the stock motor excuse.

Rob Raymer

First of all, let me say, I *thought* we were friends. I obviously have it all wrong. You are "knocking" me, flipping me off, and lying about things I've said. Namely, I NEVER complained about being legal. Only that I didn't have time to get legal. Big difference. I'm glad you did have time to get your license with someone else's 9 second car.

And it's a good thing I didn't get legal in time, or you'd have felt even worse driving 2000 miles just to see my taillights all weekend!

So let me get this straight, you only made ONE PASS at Thunder and you don't even know exactly what it was???

Great you still haven't explained how you know my car is running out of fuel without my FP dropping. In fact, we just got back from a little night run up on the Interstate. Checked A/F and FP at WOT, uncapped setup as it was making 713rwhp. I must have thrashed on the car 5-6 times in a row. Through 3rd, 4th, and even 5th. It screams. Max A/F was 12.2-12.3 at the top of 4th, EGT peaked at 1580, and FP never dropped lower than 54lbs. It's now back in my garage waiting to take me to work tomorrow...

150HP WORTH OF METHANOL???!!! You have got to be kidding me! [/B] With a total useage of 8 OUNCES (only 4oz of it being Methanol)??? That's better than nitrous!! Wow. I'm stunned.

As compared to the "imaginary dyno" everyone else uses....

Can't wait..

Hmmm....I didn't know you even needed a cage or license to run 10's? I mean, what's worse, the fact that I didn't have time to make my 9 second car legal for the race so I didn't go? Or the fact that you made a *barely* 10 second car legal for a time it wasn't even able to run?? Congrats.

And I DON'T support the scene??? Who is it again that pays for this Forum?? Oh yea, it's the ADVERTISERS! Not the MODERATORS.

Wait, you are a Moderator, right?

I'm sorry, but who are YOU to decide what should be used as an example or not? I thought this was a TECH FORUM?? Hence the name, LS1TECH.COM....duh...
And now it's my duty or something to "make sure they understand that"??? WTF?? Who died and made you the Internet Police?

I don't need to. I make 750rwhp without it. On a stock motor.

So pay for everyone to use a Mustang Dyno then. Or, it's called, "compensate for it. That's what I do. My car still runs with no issues. And believe me, I give it hell daily.

Really? I guess I'll hit the track whenever it opens...sometime after the snow clears here. And you?

Maybe. I just hope you are running faster than 10.9 by then. Let me know if you get in the 9's, then I'll go ahead and put my stock cube, hydraulic cam, single maf'd, forged motor in. Then we'll see who needs excuses...

Rob Raymer

BTW, somebody sounds a little worried about the single turbo car....

FAST LS1

iTrader: (2)

lol
What's that saying, Customers always right?

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Wow, this went from informative to slanderishly fun, and yet pathetically childish. Think it classifies as one of the top ones in my book, right next to the PP head porting copyright "scandal."

BTW, Want a good way to measure the amount of energy produced using those 8 oz of mix? Leave the SMC kit out of the equation and run it up til it detonates, without changing the tune. The difference is how much power you can get using the alky kit, not power from the alky persae, but available because of the benefits. Of course you probably already know this. But, if you will, please post the results.

Also, why is there a lean spot at the top of 4th? Alky related, or PE tuning?

Thanks,

Charlie

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

fine, your right i'm wrong.

Rob Raymer

I agree, but I didn't draw first blood. As I said, I thought we were friends. Amazing how competition can change all that.

I plan to test it another way very soon. My plan is to dyno test it on race gas alone. Then turn on the Methanol (this time, straight Methanol...no mix). I personally think this will do more to show the value of the Methanol itself in making power. And I will post the results (whether some people want me to or not ). I'll just make sure to start using my legal safety net at the end of every one of my posts...."kids...don't try this at home".

Yes, it was because I hadn't yet adjusted the PE table at that RPM level to compensate. And honestly, I would never shift the stock motor over 5800 anyway. No point, IMHO.

You are welcome Charlie.

"kids...don't try this at home".

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

I didn't start it as an attack. It turned into that.

I for one will be the first to say thank you in that post. You do realize all I want is for people to understand that the methanol is making it work currently. I'm assuming you'll have a real pump setup in there then.

I'm not posting in here to attack you, QMP, or anybody else. But i will be more than happy to toss the grenade back over the fence on some comments

And FWIW, there is friendly competition between us. I'm sure we can come up with something that will benifit the community. A friendly battle That is if my 10.9 car is worth the time

Rob Raymer

Okie dokie.

MackDeddy

Rob,
Do you have a bullseye tattoo? Because everyone is always gunning for you no matter how good a job you do on your project cars. Keep up the awesome work.
Kevin

Rob Raymer

Thanks Kevin. I've thought many times before that I must have some sort of target on me.
Maybe I should just go away and keep my progress to myself. I know I had a lot more fun back when I used to just go to the track and lay down numbers.

Oh well, when I stop posting, at least you'll know why...