Just not sure which way it goes 
Procharger set up advice.
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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From: Savannah, GA
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Uniontown,pa
Glad to here that you also took progressive steps to get where you are at. I just cringe at the fact of dropping $20K at one time. My theory is to do one thing get bored with it move up the following year and continue until I'm satisfied or divorced.
all i needed was 10 #s and i dyno'ed 505 bone stock even had the ls1 intake, that being said i gained 160 hp from intake exhaust and a mid ish cam. just because its compressed air doesen't mean that it wont benifit from better flow
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On The Tree
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From: Uniontown,pa
Intake I will get, cam don't know yet, headers probably.
I figure the better flow won't hurt. I just really don't want to get into a head swap yet. Really don't want to cam it yet either but will if I have to. BTW 10# didn't hurt the stock engine?
I figure the better flow won't hurt. I just really don't want to get into a head swap yet. Really don't want to cam it yet either but will if I have to. BTW 10# didn't hurt the stock engine?
Really?? Yeah you don't need to change heads and cam to make power with FI but changing the heads and cam allows you to make more power with out working the blower harder. When you run a more restictive head you are making more boost and creating more heat in the Charger air than it you would have used a better flowing head.
Then do a set of 317 heads and the Brute speed cam.
Then add the Meth. After that I would look into building a forged short block.
Like said I have a buddy that just removed his stock short block from his car in perfect running order after over 1 year at over 600 rwhp from the above combo. Only reason he removed the motor was for a forged 383 short block.
Lets face it the boost and power is addictive and we keep wanting more and more.
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On The Tree
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From: Uniontown,pa
This is how I would approach it. Get the LS6 intake and some 1 7/8 headers now(buy the big headers now knowing that you would like to go big later they leave room to grow)
Then do a set of 317 heads and the Brute speed cam.
Then add the Meth. After that I would look into building a forged short block.
Like said I have a buddy that just removed his stock short block from his car in perfect running order after over 1 year at over 600 rwhp from the above combo. Only reason he removed the motor was for a forged 383 short block.
Lets face it the boost and power is addictive and we keep wanting more and more.
Then do a set of 317 heads and the Brute speed cam.
Then add the Meth. After that I would look into building a forged short block.
Like said I have a buddy that just removed his stock short block from his car in perfect running order after over 1 year at over 600 rwhp from the above combo. Only reason he removed the motor was for a forged 383 short block.
Lets face it the boost and power is addictive and we keep wanting more and more.
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As everyone else said do the heads and cam now. The setup will make more power on less boost. The 317 heads will lower your compression a touch and keep the possibility of detonation a little lower and prolong the life of your short block. The cam will not only "sound good...that's retarded if you think that's all it does) It helps get the compressed air in the engine quicker and more efficiently and efficiency=power. You will also need these parts later on so you mine as well make the power easier now, and reuse the parts again on your forged motor. Methanol will also help to keep the motor alive, and yet again increase octane and efficiency of the setup by lowering IAT's. Don't forget 60lb hr injectors, preferably twin 255's or twin GS-340 pumps. I emphasize on the fuel system and tune...leaning out will POP your motor with a quickness....a good tune and fuel system made my motor live for over 60K of HARD boosted, beat on miles lol.
Sure thing. I am always willing to lend some advise.
Really?? Yeah you don't need to change heads and cam to make power with FI but changing the heads and cam allows you to make more power with out working the blower harder. When you run a more restictive head you are making more boost and creating more heat in the Charger air than it you would have used a better flowing head.
Really?? Yeah you don't need to change heads and cam to make power with FI but changing the heads and cam allows you to make more power with out working the blower harder. When you run a more restictive head you are making more boost and creating more heat in the Charger air than it you would have used a better flowing head.
You can spend as much money as you want with increasing engine flow (heads, cam) but in the end you will make the same power, just spend more money doing it. And remember swapping the cam will decrease valvetrain longevity, its all a trade off. Lots of people making 550rwhp on the stock longblock though without spending $1000+ on heads/cam.
Last edited by 99bluefirebird; Mar 15, 2011 at 11:47 PM.
No you wont. Are you saying switching from a stock cam to a aftermarket, blower specific cam will make the same power? RPM and detonation actually happen to be the 2 most frequent causes of short block failure. There are guys running 9's and well into the 700's on stock short blocks, they just happen to run race fuel and don't spin the **** outta them. Power output is a reflection of boost pressure. Boost pressure is just a measure of restriction...and yes there is such a thing as too much lol
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From: Uniontown,pa
We are talking about a D1 here. You think a 4.5" or 4" pulley is "working" the blower? As long as your intercooler can handle 600hp charge temps will not be a problem. Yes "boost" as in psi will go up when you have more restrictive heads. "Boost" is not going to be what kills the motor, power output will kill the stock motor (broken ringlands, eating bearings, etc).
You can spend as much money as you want with increasing engine flow (heads, cam) but in the end you will make the same power, just spend more money doing it. And remember swapping the cam will decrease valvetrain longevity, its all a trade off. Lots of people making 550rwhp on the stock longblock though without spending $1000+ on heads/cam.
You can spend as much money as you want with increasing engine flow (heads, cam) but in the end you will make the same power, just spend more money doing it. And remember swapping the cam will decrease valvetrain longevity, its all a trade off. Lots of people making 550rwhp on the stock longblock though without spending $1000+ on heads/cam.
I am saying the difference is so minimal that it is not worth the extra money. And yes rpm and detonation kill engines, but since we are not talking about tuning that does not matter. Lets make some examples to make this more objective: stock LS1 shortblock
D1 4.5" pulley + LS1 heads + LS1 cam = 8psi = 520rwhp
D1 4.5" pulley + better heads + blower cam = 6psi = 540rwhp
D1 4" pulley + LS1 heads + LS1 cam = 11 psi = 560rwhp
D1 4" pulley + better heads + blower cam = 9psi = 580rwhp
Remember the blower only moves so many CFM at a certain speed, that mostly dictates your power output. Getting a smaller pulley to begin with costs $0. Getting heads/cam costs $1-3k, and you can sacrifice valvetrain longevity and torque with the wrong combo. So IMO if you are getting into boost for the first time when there will inevitably be many little costly gremlins that will pop up, I would not feel the need to spend a lot more money up front to make the flow slightly more efficient.
D1 4.5" pulley + LS1 heads + LS1 cam = 8psi = 520rwhp
D1 4.5" pulley + better heads + blower cam = 6psi = 540rwhp
D1 4" pulley + LS1 heads + LS1 cam = 11 psi = 560rwhp
D1 4" pulley + better heads + blower cam = 9psi = 580rwhp
Remember the blower only moves so many CFM at a certain speed, that mostly dictates your power output. Getting a smaller pulley to begin with costs $0. Getting heads/cam costs $1-3k, and you can sacrifice valvetrain longevity and torque with the wrong combo. So IMO if you are getting into boost for the first time when there will inevitably be many little costly gremlins that will pop up, I would not feel the need to spend a lot more money up front to make the flow slightly more efficient.
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From: Uniontown,pa
Ok let's say I just go ahead and install the D1SC with 60# injectors, dual intank 340's, ls6 intake, 1 7/8" headers pulley it for 10psi, and I go to the dyno get it tuned. Then say as I drive it this summer and I don't like the power I have I go ahead and do the heads and cam swap. Will the car have to be retuned or will I be ok with the tune from the original setup?
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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From: Savannah, GA
99bluefirebird- you are not pulling those numbers from experience, they are coming out of your ***!
You forget that heads and cam not only help intake efficiency, they help exhaust as well. Yes, it is true that getting air into the cylinders is nowhere near as critical on an FI application compared to N/A since yes- your head unit will be outputing a set cfm based on pulley size.. However, thats only half the equation buddy.. You need to get that air OUT of the system too. Better heads and cam will shine in this area on an FI application. You can not neglect that effect.
That all being said, I still say that for the OP's goal of 500ish HP, stay with the stock shortblock, upgrade to LS6 intake, get some good headers, and the next thing on the list I'd recommend would be a meth kit.
And to answer your question jastone about the tune- your car will likely start and run good enough to drive it to get retuned, but definitely get a re-tune after heads and cam. Especially on FI. By no means should you beat on it with those mods without a re-tune.
You forget that heads and cam not only help intake efficiency, they help exhaust as well. Yes, it is true that getting air into the cylinders is nowhere near as critical on an FI application compared to N/A since yes- your head unit will be outputing a set cfm based on pulley size.. However, thats only half the equation buddy.. You need to get that air OUT of the system too. Better heads and cam will shine in this area on an FI application. You can not neglect that effect.
That all being said, I still say that for the OP's goal of 500ish HP, stay with the stock shortblock, upgrade to LS6 intake, get some good headers, and the next thing on the list I'd recommend would be a meth kit.
And to answer your question jastone about the tune- your car will likely start and run good enough to drive it to get retuned, but definitely get a re-tune after heads and cam. Especially on FI. By no means should you beat on it with those mods without a re-tune.
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From: Uniontown,pa
Chevy chad,
Thanks for all your info man, and to everybody for that matter. I've learned more tonight than I have in the 2yrs I've been lurking in this section. All you guys have been very helpful to me
Thanks for all your info man, and to everybody for that matter. I've learned more tonight than I have in the 2yrs I've been lurking in this section. All you guys have been very helpful to me
After 8 yrs of running EPP, I came to the conclusion that 8 psi on a stock bottom end is the highest amount of boost that should be run, unless you can afford an engine rebuild should it be necessary. Sure, some get by with higher boost levels, but one tank of bad fuel is all it takes to crack a ring land. To this stock bottom end and 8 psi, you can get away with either better flowing heads or a good cam, but add both the heads and cam to a stock bottom end with 8 psi and reliability seems to suffer. Bob
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https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
I am not quite sure how you would say I am pulling those numbers out my *** since you don't know anything about my car and combination. Interesting Chevychad how instead of arguing a form of objective data you turn it into a useless argument. How about instead you estimate what hp each of the above combos would make, since you have better estimates. And no I didnt forget that heads/cam affect exhaust flow. Decreased exhaust flow is part of what increases "boost" by a couple psi or so in each of the above combinations. Not to mention other factors such as getting into significant overlap that can further bleed off boost. For example on my setup I swapped from 1 3/4 longtubes with clogged cats to 1 7/8 longtubes w/o cats and boost dropped from 12psi to 9psi, power did not change more than 10hp.
Glad you finally agreed that heads/cam aren't needed for the OP's goal though, I am just trying to save some unnecessary money since I have been through the same situation.
Glad you finally agreed that heads/cam aren't needed for the OP's goal though, I am just trying to save some unnecessary money since I have been through the same situation.
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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No need to pollute this thread with anymore bickering or BS. There is actually a good bit of info in here, so no need to add clutter.