Getting weird knock
08-10-2011, 04:58 AM
#23
The 2 and 3 bar custom operating systems with hptuners allow the use of high and low octane spark tables. I recommend the low octane table having 8 degrees less timing than the high table, in case you get a bad tank of gas. What wideband are you running? I do not have the pro and I log my wideband through my EGR, it's not too difficult at all but it takes a few custom PIDs.
If you notice as you do your pulls you start around 198 degree coolant temp. When you start getting knock retard your coolant temp is up around 210-212 degrees. I think your engine is getting heat soaked pretty good and your cooling system is not keeping up, as your fans are triggered to be on around 190 degrees. What does your cooling systm consist of? I think when you can get the car to stay around 190-200 degrees your knock issues will disappear. Do you run a turbo blanket at all? This will help reduce underhood temps.
If you notice as you do your pulls you start around 198 degree coolant temp. When you start getting knock retard your coolant temp is up around 210-212 degrees. I think your engine is getting heat soaked pretty good and your cooling system is not keeping up, as your fans are triggered to be on around 190 degrees. What does your cooling systm consist of? I think when you can get the car to stay around 190-200 degrees your knock issues will disappear. Do you run a turbo blanket at all? This will help reduce underhood temps.
08-10-2011, 09:45 AM
#24
With sd you want the tables to match up actually. His car does seems to run pretty hot and I seen on another log he had where his iat got in the 130s just cruising around. Which is crazy, needs meth and to keep the car cooler as well as using the correct injector data.
I agree with you on the IAT's, I see IAT's at the track at the end of the track that I never see playing around on the street running the same amount of boost. That would explain why he's seeing retard only in 4th & 5th. BTW 130* is super hot for just crusing around. Maybe the car is running excessively rich?
08-10-2011, 11:11 AM
#25
Yea if your not seeing any knock on your 1-3 pulls, but see it after the 4th and 5th especially in the higher gears, you are getting heat soaked and your motor is going lean and your getting pre-detonation(knock). Pull 2-4 degrees of timing and then start adding fuel where in the rpm range it was knocking. Once you get it to not detonate consistently making 4th and 5th gear pulls on the 4th or 5th run then you can start playing with bringing some timing back in as long as your still safe on your afr and your not getting any knock.
Trial and error.
I have never tuned a vehicle before, but I have watched plenty of my friends and people I have had business with before to know what needs to be changed and done in the general sense of things to keep things together and running the way they should.
I hope to get to start tuning soon in the next month or so on my car so when my new motor goes in, I can forgo some cost in outsourcing to have it tuned.
Trial and error.
I have never tuned a vehicle before, but I have watched plenty of my friends and people I have had business with before to know what needs to be changed and done in the general sense of things to keep things together and running the way they should.
I hope to get to start tuning soon in the next month or so on my car so when my new motor goes in, I can forgo some cost in outsourcing to have it tuned.
08-10-2011, 12:10 PM
#26
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WOW guys thanks for the help i think my regular 80# siemens are off scale. also the car is a th400 and it pulls fine like i said till it gets heat soaked on the 4th and 5th pull. You have to remeber its extremely hot here in tx i try and not drive the car during the day but still at 10pm at night its still 100*F out! I tried a few different tunes till 2am last night and i was still getting knock. I put in 01z28camaro's tune and it seemed to run better but i didnt have time to mess with matching MY own VE table to his injector scaling.
I run the AEM wideband and im very intrested on how u hooked it up through the EGR to read on a PID. Also I dont think i have the right hptuners OS for the 3bar. How do i go about doing this? do i need to purchase more credits?
Once again thanks
I run the AEM wideband and im very intrested on how u hooked it up through the EGR to read on a PID. Also I dont think i have the right hptuners OS for the 3bar. How do i go about doing this? do i need to purchase more credits?
Once again thanks
08-10-2011, 12:12 PM
#27
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Also yes, my cooling system is good I have 4 fans 2 pushers and 2 pullers i was having over heating issues until i put that factory fans back on the radiator. And I do have a brand new turbo blanket as well. METH is a DEF going on the car its just a matter of time, id like to get these issues narrowed down so i dont have to nessarily rely on meth.
08-10-2011, 12:29 PM
#28
WOW guys thanks for the help i think my regular 80# siemens are off scale. also the car is a th400 and it pulls fine like i said till it gets heat soaked on the 4th and 5th pull. You have to remeber its extremely hot here in tx i try and not drive the car during the day but still at 10pm at night its still 100*F out! I tried a few different tunes till 2am last night and i was still getting knock. I put in 01z28camaro's tune and it seemed to run better but i didnt have time to mess with matching MY own VE table to his injector scaling.
I run the AEM wideband and im very intrested on how u hooked it up through the EGR to read on a PID. Also I dont think i have the right hptuners OS for the 3bar. How do i go about doing this? do i need to purchase more credits?
Once again thanks
I run the AEM wideband and im very intrested on how u hooked it up through the EGR to read on a PID. Also I dont think i have the right hptuners OS for the 3bar. How do i go about doing this? do i need to purchase more credits?
Once again thanks
08-10-2011, 12:48 PM
#29
Oh, just noticed this but your commanding a pretty lean A/F. The boost enrichment table is set to 1.0 which would be 14.62 but since it looks at the EQ ratio also and chooses the richer of the 2 tables, your tune has a 1.15 in the EQ table which would be 12.6 AFR. You really need to get your tuner to richen it up, I like 11.6 under boost.
08-10-2011, 01:46 PM
#30
He could have it commanding 12.6 however that doesn't mean the computer will change the fueling for him. It will use the ve table, then you take the error percent from the commanded vs the actual in order to get the correct ve. There are several issues in the tune. I wouldn't go back to the guy that tuned it.
08-10-2011, 01:48 PM
#31
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Ive had 2 different people tune it let me post both files real quick. they were both tuned different parts of the year the first tune labeled Qualityslasttune is the rich one. the second one was my buddy who tunes alot he didnt have much time to work on it but here are both.
08-10-2011, 03:49 PM
#33
Here is some info on wiring your wideband through the egr http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...t=wideband+egr
You will need to find out which formula AEM is using to convert voltage to lambda. Each brand of wideband uses a different formula.
You will need to find out which formula AEM is using to convert voltage to lambda. Each brand of wideband uses a different formula.
08-11-2011, 04:34 AM
#40
I commeneted on this earlier, I run my low octane table with 8 degrees less timing than the high octane table.
3 bar SD custom OS available on most 99+ LS1 based PCM's•3bar MAP sensor support (calibration capability for GM 0-5V linear MAP sensors)
•Extended Main VE table to 315kPa (2bar)
•Retains full 5 kPa resolution in non-boost regions (most calibrations)
•5 kPa resolution in boost regions (most calibrations)
•secondary VE table not used (if applicable)
•New MAP referenced "Boost Enrich" table
•New openloop MAP threshold
•Dual (High and Low Octane) Spark table support
•Speed Density mode only
•VCM Scanner histogram automatically recognizes and adjusts for 2bar feature (if applicable)
•New 3bar MAP PID for VCM Scanner (if applicable)
•Adds RTT http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_editor_rtt.htm (most calibrations)
3 bar SD custom OS available on most 99+ LS1 based PCM's•3bar MAP sensor support (calibration capability for GM 0-5V linear MAP sensors)
•Extended Main VE table to 315kPa (2bar)
•Retains full 5 kPa resolution in non-boost regions (most calibrations)
•5 kPa resolution in boost regions (most calibrations)
•secondary VE table not used (if applicable)
•New MAP referenced "Boost Enrich" table
•New openloop MAP threshold
•Dual (High and Low Octane) Spark table support
•Speed Density mode only
•VCM Scanner histogram automatically recognizes and adjusts for 2bar feature (if applicable)
•New 3bar MAP PID for VCM Scanner (if applicable)
•Adds RTT http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_editor_rtt.htm (most calibrations)