Cheap supercharger kit: Part II
04-05-2014, 09:56 AM
#47
I know this is an old thread, but I just stumbled on it and have to say it was some pretty creative work Pocket. I was looking at how one might adapt some of these cheap M112 blowers to a LS motor. I am seeing them all over the place for like $400-$800 some of them already rebuilt!
11-27-2014, 10:19 AM
#51
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Surprised no one asked...but do you think that you were getting a lot of belt slippage with the first tensioner? How long did you run it with the extra boost before you puked it?
11-27-2014, 01:49 PM
#52
Yes, there was alot of belt slip with the first tensioner design. Been a long time but I think boost was around 8psi before and 12psi after the redesign
Got about a month out of it. The destruction above was most likely due to the aeromotive 340 failing, not excess boost. Will never know for sure
Got about a month out of it. The destruction above was most likely due to the aeromotive 340 failing, not excess boost. Will never know for sure
11-27-2014, 02:39 PM
#53
I'm afraid the Aeromotive 340s have a bad history. I have one in my RICKSs EFI tanks. :-(
12-06-2014, 08:21 AM
#55
4th gens have little room to work with. I wouldnt recommend a sidemount for it
You're LT1 should make things a bit easier. Use a SBC roots intake tub, redrill it for the LT1 bolt pattern. Make a flat plate for the top and mount a ford M112/M122 on top. Drill for injectors. Adjust belt routing, done
You're LT1 should make things a bit easier. Use a SBC roots intake tub, redrill it for the LT1 bolt pattern. Make a flat plate for the top and mount a ford M112/M122 on top. Drill for injectors. Adjust belt routing, done
12-06-2014, 09:45 AM
#56
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4th gens have little room to work with. I wouldnt recommend a sidemount for it
You're LT1 should make things a bit easier. Use a SBC roots intake tub, redrill it for the LT1 bolt pattern. Make a flat plate for the top and mount a ford M112/M122 on top. Drill for injectors. Adjust belt routing, done
You're LT1 should make things a bit easier. Use a SBC roots intake tub, redrill it for the LT1 bolt pattern. Make a flat plate for the top and mount a ford M112/M122 on top. Drill for injectors. Adjust belt routing, done
12-11-2014, 09:23 AM
#57
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Heres a project Ive been working on for quite a while
Eaton M122 off a 2009 Shelby GT500 on a LSx engine
Some of you may remember my last build using an older M90 on a 5.3 which netted about 60hp over stock. The instant torque was fun but it just needed a little more
Comparison
Basic fitment
Cutting a base plate from 1/4" steel
Designing a tight fitting balancer hub and stand off to use common parts. 6 rib accessory drive remains the same with a generic SBC 10 rib crank pulley as close to the block as possible
Rough model to gauge fitment. It was later amended to move the front plate up one bolt hole and add a second plate to hold and idler to clear the water pump bell. Tensioner is the standard that come with truck maggy kits that most guys upgrade. Its actually a diesel part. Pulley was swapped for a procharger smooth idler wide enough for my belt
Balancer hub came back from the machine shop. Hub is 4130 while the centering ring and stand off are aluminum
Building the brackets, keeping everything true
Rear brace. Those bolt holes in the cyl heads are sure handy
Building the collector hat. The tube running towards the rear connects the bypass butterfly to the charge pipe so the stock actuator can be used. The external unit for the M90 was a pain
Beginning the front plates checking belt alignment. From the last build I found that a serp belt can handle about .030" and .5* of misalignment before it will throw and/or chew a belt. Since this belt is about $60, thats a bit expensive to tweak afterwards. Had to be dead on from the start this time
How much room I have to work with
Plates finished and HD belt installed
Decent sized inlet
And its in there
Had to notch a plate for hood clearance, thats about 5/8"
Ford 8.8 conversion, calipers were painted later. Not sure whats up with the yellow
Fuel system
And thats about it
Rolling into the throttle from a stop. Long 1st and 2nd from the 80E. Boost comes in approx 40%
Hammering it from around 35
Eaton M122 off a 2009 Shelby GT500 on a LSx engine
Some of you may remember my last build using an older M90 on a 5.3 which netted about 60hp over stock. The instant torque was fun but it just needed a little more
Comparison
Basic fitment
Cutting a base plate from 1/4" steel
Designing a tight fitting balancer hub and stand off to use common parts. 6 rib accessory drive remains the same with a generic SBC 10 rib crank pulley as close to the block as possible
Rough model to gauge fitment. It was later amended to move the front plate up one bolt hole and add a second plate to hold and idler to clear the water pump bell. Tensioner is the standard that come with truck maggy kits that most guys upgrade. Its actually a diesel part. Pulley was swapped for a procharger smooth idler wide enough for my belt
Balancer hub came back from the machine shop. Hub is 4130 while the centering ring and stand off are aluminum
Building the brackets, keeping everything true
Rear brace. Those bolt holes in the cyl heads are sure handy
Building the collector hat. The tube running towards the rear connects the bypass butterfly to the charge pipe so the stock actuator can be used. The external unit for the M90 was a pain
Beginning the front plates checking belt alignment. From the last build I found that a serp belt can handle about .030" and .5* of misalignment before it will throw and/or chew a belt. Since this belt is about $60, thats a bit expensive to tweak afterwards. Had to be dead on from the start this time
How much room I have to work with
Plates finished and HD belt installed
Decent sized inlet
And its in there
Had to notch a plate for hood clearance, thats about 5/8"
Ford 8.8 conversion, calipers were painted later. Not sure whats up with the yellow
Fuel system
And thats about it
Rolling into the throttle from a stop. Long 1st and 2nd from the 80E. Boost comes in approx 40%
Hammering it from around 35
I was actually thinking about doing this myself. I’m glad to see that it has been done before. I actually have a rather detailed excel sheet that I made in an attempt to model the boost and power that this blower would make. I do have a few concerns though.
The first being that some sort of cooling of charge air would be necessary because the calculated heat output #'s are a bit toasty! (250F with 100F intake air) I personally would like to use an air to air IC but I am wondering what kind of affects that large of an intake volume would have on boost and power production with the positive displacement blower.
The second thing that I have concerns about is belt traction. An 8 rib set up is out of the question really due to cost. (This is a low budget build because I’m a broke college student.) Through my research and some sketchy math I have found that the traction limits are around 60 HP and that makes a decent amount of boost, but it’s still a concern for me.
Seeing as you’re the pro of side mounts around here I would appreciate any advice that you have to give!
12-16-2014, 03:18 PM
#58
My advice would be to get it in the car before crunching numbers to determine perfect situations. Theres alot of compromising with a sidemount system
You will need an intercooler of some sort. A2A are more efficient than A2W like most roots use and are easier to implement with a sidemount system
With a system like mine that mounts the TB in the stock location, excess volume would feel like turbo lag, but boost is instant so you never feel it. The down side is its annoyingly loud
With the TB mounted to the blower inlet like most roots systems, the entire charge pipe, IC and intake are now counted as plenum volume. Expect pretty big losses in throttle response, but it will sound like a standard roots
Belt slip is a big problem and the M122 is bad for it. Inexpensive 8-10 rib parts can be had if you look hard enough. Diesels and SC T-birds commonly are 8 rib. Indiv parts pop up on ebay frequently for larger systems. My crank pulley was a Procharger SBC pulley flipped backwards. The tensioner a magnacharger unit. Tensioner pulley, another procharger bit. Misc idlers diesel bits off amazon
6 rib wont cut it
You will need an intercooler of some sort. A2A are more efficient than A2W like most roots use and are easier to implement with a sidemount system
With a system like mine that mounts the TB in the stock location, excess volume would feel like turbo lag, but boost is instant so you never feel it. The down side is its annoyingly loud
With the TB mounted to the blower inlet like most roots systems, the entire charge pipe, IC and intake are now counted as plenum volume. Expect pretty big losses in throttle response, but it will sound like a standard roots
Belt slip is a big problem and the M122 is bad for it. Inexpensive 8-10 rib parts can be had if you look hard enough. Diesels and SC T-birds commonly are 8 rib. Indiv parts pop up on ebay frequently for larger systems. My crank pulley was a Procharger SBC pulley flipped backwards. The tensioner a magnacharger unit. Tensioner pulley, another procharger bit. Misc idlers diesel bits off amazon
6 rib wont cut it
12-18-2014, 07:40 AM
#59
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well as far as getting the blower mounted in the engine bay its lowest on my list of concerns. Its in a 70's Chevy truck so them amount of engine bay room is comical. I could fit a person on either side of the motor and close the hood. I also have SolidWorks and access to mills at school. I also have a friend who works for a company that distributes high end machines so custom parts are not a problem.
As far as throttle body position I was not considering after the blower like your set up. Unless you think that throttle body response will be so bad as to make the vehicle annoying to drive. That issue didn't even cross my mind. None of the pictures or videos on your threads are showing up for me. Any chance you have a link to the video that shows what it sounds like with the throttle body after the S/C. Also do you feel that where you have the throttle body is the best option?
I definitely hear what you are saying about belt traction. I feel bad even asking any further questions about that subject but...
I will probably just sell my blower if I cant make the 6 rib work. This is supposed to be a fun budged boost build until I graduate. I'm not looking for crazy power or boost just a good bump in torque!
Like I said I'm fairly sure that I can get 60 hp to take to that pulley with 80% wrap, a good belt and a **** load of tension. Do you think other wise? My excel sheet has the smallest pulley at 3.4 inches and that will have S/C input right around 60 hp. Ill attach the Excel sheet so if you have time you can take a quick look at it and tell me if im way off on my calculations or not seeing as you have the experience.
Thanks for the advice! Its hard finding someone to talk to about the subject lol
Super charger calculation.zip
As far as throttle body position I was not considering after the blower like your set up. Unless you think that throttle body response will be so bad as to make the vehicle annoying to drive. That issue didn't even cross my mind. None of the pictures or videos on your threads are showing up for me. Any chance you have a link to the video that shows what it sounds like with the throttle body after the S/C. Also do you feel that where you have the throttle body is the best option?
I definitely hear what you are saying about belt traction. I feel bad even asking any further questions about that subject but...
I will probably just sell my blower if I cant make the 6 rib work. This is supposed to be a fun budged boost build until I graduate. I'm not looking for crazy power or boost just a good bump in torque!
Like I said I'm fairly sure that I can get 60 hp to take to that pulley with 80% wrap, a good belt and a **** load of tension. Do you think other wise? My excel sheet has the smallest pulley at 3.4 inches and that will have S/C input right around 60 hp. Ill attach the Excel sheet so if you have time you can take a quick look at it and tell me if im way off on my calculations or not seeing as you have the experience. Thanks for the advice! Its hard finding someone to talk to about the subject lol
Super charger calculation.zip