Homemade M112 for my LS1 BMW
04-18-2012, 08:23 PM
#122
With this and his comment below yours I am seeing that an IC/heat exchanger would be more preferred and a worthwhile investment, I am not knocking the OP's design at all, different strokes for different folks. The only issue in a company building a Eaton intake for the LSx platform that I see is I'm doubting highly that a M112 and M122 will bolt up the same, and then you have the issue of pulley's. For truck accessories you will need different S/C placement than vette or camaro accessories. With those two problems resolved it could be done. You would most likely have to build a mani for say the M122 in a truck and car configuration and that be it. The M122's are all over ebay for $550-$1100, so they are readily available, but if you start building this, how long will that last until either a) they become HARD to find. b) someone gets wise to what is going on and the prices start rising to the point that buying a Maggie is just as economical.
The profit margin for these intakes I doubt would be very high and a business is founded to make money, not break even, they have to beable to buy equipment to grow and build new parts to meet needs and demands. If you start pricing for just the lower manifold with a IC in it and NOTHING else, no bolts, no hoses, no pulley's, just the base with IC connections and injector bungs, then from that point it's a "build it yourself" setup for say.....$1000, a lot of people aren't going to be interested. But I believe that would be about where the prices would start for a intake manifold because of materials, labor, design, R&D, then putting a few dollars in their pocket. Then the consumer has to add $550-1100 for the S/C, the cost of pulleys, cooling system costs and related items, the consumer will very easily get $2k+ wrapped up in this, which is cheaper than a Maggie, but people like simple and easy.
The profit margin for these intakes I doubt would be very high and a business is founded to make money, not break even, they have to beable to buy equipment to grow and build new parts to meet needs and demands. If you start pricing for just the lower manifold with a IC in it and NOTHING else, no bolts, no hoses, no pulley's, just the base with IC connections and injector bungs, then from that point it's a "build it yourself" setup for say.....$1000, a lot of people aren't going to be interested. But I believe that would be about where the prices would start for a intake manifold because of materials, labor, design, R&D, then putting a few dollars in their pocket. Then the consumer has to add $550-1100 for the S/C, the cost of pulleys, cooling system costs and related items, the consumer will very easily get $2k+ wrapped up in this, which is cheaper than a Maggie, but people like simple and easy.
I don't think anyone was talking about the OP trying to mass produce any of this stuff. I am perplexed as to why you went off on a tangent of trying to justify price vs performance to the average car owner so you can make a profit.
By the way Maggie used to offer their kits with an Eaton M112 before getting heavier into offering the TVS R1900 and TVS R2300's. Perhaps they still even do but I don't keep tabs on that. The M112 is a good blower but it is not as efficient as a TVS R1900 blower. Between that, the AWIC system, and simplicity, and warranty that enough reason for most backyard mech's to just buy the kit. Others prefer to save the money, have more fun, and make something on their own. I usually gravitate towards the road less traveled too but I don't slight anyone that bolts a blower kit on their car either.
The OP used a M112 from a Lightning if I recall correctly. The way that the blower bolts to the intercooler below it would make it a pain in the rear to transfer to an LSx engine without adding allot more fab work and substantially raising the height of the blower to the point where it would stick out of the hood. The Ford modulars have a a large open space under where the blower sits because they are an OHC design engine. They have plenty of room for a large intercooler under the blower without raising the height. The LSx do not which makes the fabrication of adding an AWIC to a PD blower on these cars hard enough to the point of not being worth it to the average backyard fabber if they plan to run more mild boost. Obviously if you have the skills to do the whole system and fab an AWIC system into it too without it raising the height so as to stick out of the hood then that would be optimal. It will add allot more complexity to the project though.
04-18-2012, 11:19 PM
#123
TECH Apprentice
I don't think anyone was talking about the OP trying to mass produce any of this stuff. I am perplexed as to why you went off on a tangent of trying to justify price vs performance to the average car owner so you can make a profit.
By the way Maggie used to offer their kits with an Eaton M112 before getting heavier into offering the TVS R1900 and TVS R2300's. Perhaps they still even do but I don't keep tabs on that. The M112 is a good blower but it is not as efficient as a TVS R1900 blower. Between that, the AWIC system, and simplicity, and warranty that enough reason for most backyard mech's to just buy the kit. Others prefer to save the money, have more fun, and make something on their own. I usually gravitate towards the road less traveled too but I don't slight anyone that bolts a blower kit on their car either.
The OP used a M112 from a Lightning if I recall correctly. The way that the blower bolts to the intercooler below it would make it a pain in the rear to transfer to an LSx engine without adding allot more fab work and substantially raising the height of the blower to the point where it would stick out of the hood. The Ford modulars have a a large open space under where the blower sits because they are an OHC design engine. They have plenty of room for a large intercooler under the blower without raising the height. The LSx do not which makes the fabrication of adding an AWIC to a PD blower on these cars hard enough to the point of not being worth it to the average backyard fabber if they plan to run more mild boost. Obviously if you have the skills to do the whole system and fab an AWIC system into it too without it raising the height so as to stick out of the hood then that would be optimal. It will add allot more complexity to the project though.
By the way Maggie used to offer their kits with an Eaton M112 before getting heavier into offering the TVS R1900 and TVS R2300's. Perhaps they still even do but I don't keep tabs on that. The M112 is a good blower but it is not as efficient as a TVS R1900 blower. Between that, the AWIC system, and simplicity, and warranty that enough reason for most backyard mech's to just buy the kit. Others prefer to save the money, have more fun, and make something on their own. I usually gravitate towards the road less traveled too but I don't slight anyone that bolts a blower kit on their car either.
The OP used a M112 from a Lightning if I recall correctly. The way that the blower bolts to the intercooler below it would make it a pain in the rear to transfer to an LSx engine without adding allot more fab work and substantially raising the height of the blower to the point where it would stick out of the hood. The Ford modulars have a a large open space under where the blower sits because they are an OHC design engine. They have plenty of room for a large intercooler under the blower without raising the height. The LSx do not which makes the fabrication of adding an AWIC to a PD blower on these cars hard enough to the point of not being worth it to the average backyard fabber if they plan to run more mild boost. Obviously if you have the skills to do the whole system and fab an AWIC system into it too without it raising the height so as to stick out of the hood then that would be optimal. It will add allot more complexity to the project though.
04-19-2012, 08:04 AM
#124
I didn't intend to run off like that with my thoughts. I'm thinking with a CAD drawing, some hard thinking, and fab skills a decent intake manifold could be made. Sorry for whoring it up. I was just thinking that you can buy plate style heat exchangers like Ford uses for fairly cheap, my end thought was to draw up an intake in CAD with a heat exchanger, price materials and estimate labor and see how much it would cost to hand build these and sell them. Just the intake with the heat exchanger in it and nothing more and from there it would be up to the end user to put together his/her S/C kit and cooling system. I should have been more clear with my thoughts and intentions. I have a buddy with a TIG that has about every welding certification you can get and has trophies from welding competitions, just not sure what his labor costs would be.
04-19-2012, 08:42 AM
#125
Had there been enough room under the hood I would have tackled the job of adding a exchanger of some sort. The most important part of this project for me was to keep a stockish appearance. I have no doubt that I can cool it off enough with a proper meth injection setup.
04-19-2012, 10:52 AM
#126
Had there been enough room under the hood I would have tackled the job of adding a exchanger of some sort. The most important part of this project for me was to keep a stockish appearance. I have no doubt that I can cool it off enough with a proper meth injection setup.
04-20-2012, 09:21 AM
#128
04-20-2012, 10:03 AM
#129
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OP please pm me if your interested in making another one of these. I would very much like to buy one and would like to discuss it in more detail with you.
Thanks man!
Thanks man!
04-20-2012, 12:10 PM
#130
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Man that has to be was fun ride and sounds great. Some meth anda little more boost are never a bad thing.
Mods probably feel its a hijack so got rid of them, when you get close post up a.thread, ill have an eye open.
Mods probably feel its a hijack so got rid of them, when you get close post up a.thread, ill have an eye open.
04-20-2012, 12:16 PM
#131
I made my own thread, and it got deleted. when I asked why, it got deleted. so I will just wait until we finish the prototype and post it up. and if I have to become a "paying sponsor" to do so I guess I will
08-02-2012, 08:14 PM
#136
MAKE sure the bypass valve is adjusted correctly...
the heaton is gonna get hot tho... perhaps run a e-85 injection right before the throttle body so that you cool the blower off as well...
the heaton is gonna get hot tho... perhaps run a e-85 injection right before the throttle body so that you cool the blower off as well...
08-06-2012, 03:05 AM
#137
I've been researching the g500 and the intercoolers look pretty deep. Does anyone know much clearance is needed between the bottom of the intercooler and the intake floor? Would I be better or getting a used gt500 intercooler and making it work with an intake like the OPs? I really wanna make this work.
08-09-2012, 02:27 AM
#138
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Please keep us posted on dyno numbers and if you'd be interested in making another one and cost. Also did you get the iat down and how? I wanted to do a turbo set up until I read this thread thanks for the inspiration and great job
09-21-2012, 09:37 AM
#140
It did, the rear steam vents were blocked off, I assume that was the cause of the issue. Fixed the motor and opened the ports up. Wrecked the car at the drag strip shortly after.
Got the IAT's much more manageable with a couple nozzles mounted under the blower inside the intake manifold. The car made 422/460 at the tire on 9lbs. I am building another car and this time it will go turbo. I like the s/c, but it has been very limiting.
Got the IAT's much more manageable with a couple nozzles mounted under the blower inside the intake manifold. The car made 422/460 at the tire on 9lbs. I am building another car and this time it will go turbo. I like the s/c, but it has been very limiting.