Ok, dilemma, started a thread for this since im not sure who is following the build and who's not.


I can run E85 with Meth and loose 50lbs or E85 with IC and add 50lbs.

Benefeits and drawbacks? Thoughts, anything. lol

Its on the check list, and starting this weekend, ill be doing the IC side of things.

My initial thought was to maybe run an injector, assuming stand alone EMS(will cost me 50lbs), use it for fueling and cooling at the same time, seems complicated though...

Never messed with Meth injection injection before, so learning to use that and tune yada yada,

Suppose i could go A2W, they have not said it will cost more then 50lbs, i assume once they take a closer look, it will add more then an A2A.

Looking for a little advice on where to go with this. Part of me wants to just run E85 and meth for simplicity.

Thoughts, flame suit on, bash away

EDIT: Correction to above statement, 3350 base weight for SB Turbo 76mm, add 50lb for IC and add 25lbs for Stand alone EMS.

 

Jax, as I said in our PM's I think it would be best for you to run an I/C for the wider tuning window. The weight break is well and good, but I have seen a lot of the local guys hurt motors on E85 w/ no i/c in our RS275 class, because the common perception is that it's E85 it's like race gas so I can lean it out and run more timing. Most of the guys that have had trouble were in the 11.2-11.6 AFR range and 14* at 20+psi. That doesn't sound like a "hot" tune-up, but the E85 fuel burns so cleanly it's hard to get a reading off the plugs to determine how the engine is doing with that tune-up.

Run the A2W and E85 if your budget allows an a/w. You'll have no problem getting that New Edge to the required weight even with the A2W.

Just so everyone knows he is planning on running a class almost identical to NDRRA's and LSX shootout's Real Street class. Base weight is 3300 and that's either with an A2A i/c or meth injection not both. They look at the meth injection as a form of intercooling so you can't have the two.

 

Which vehicle is this for? 50lbs is a lot but I'd rather be safe with lower IATs than sorry.

 

Hydro, its for the mustang.

 

I agree the tuning window is small but 30psi on 10:1 with no intercooler can be done and it can be reliable. Takes a tuner with actual knowledge of E85 fuel and how it works. It does not tune like alky, gas or race gas.

 

Well considering im more then likely going to be doing my tuning, at the track. Ill get a very very well known tuner do my baseline stuff then do my tweaks for the track on my own.

Any other thoughts on this guys? I appreciate the input so far guys.

Ive never done any research on turbo cars without ICs.

Any good places to do that? DO the GN guys run with ICs much?

 

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...No+intercooler

Good thread on bullet, reading up, seems like Hellbent replied in this one too

 

i would take the weight break, and do the water meth injection. if done right, it can cool just as much as an intercooler, and will provide benefits that the intercooler cant even come close to providing.

 

Looks like i miss spoke earlier, well, miss-typed,

3350 base weight for SB Turbo 76mm, add 50 lbs for IC add 25lbs for stand alone EMS

 

My car has a stock 5.3 in it and has made 740rwhp on the dyno at 21 lbs of boost non intercooler with two 1000cc nozzles, the car has a holley efi was fine to 18lbs 104 intake after that things get hot very quick on my last pass at the track made 304 kpa with 286 air intake temp good thing only had 9 degrees of time went 152mph but did not et has to big of a exhaust housing on it

all this being said I would put the water meth on for the weight savings over the weight of the extra tank plus the water and ice just make sure that you have enough water meth to keep up with the amount of boost you are making

Putting a 76mm on a 4.8 for a local race "muscle street" class and planning on running the lsx real street class if they allow e85 this comimg year

 

I believe you and i are referring to the same class my friend, Indy, Muscle street, Im on their too. LOL. Im shafft.

Anyway, ive been doing reading and reading and reading, and stumbled upon the a few threads and here and a couple on bullet. I think im gonna do it. Run the meth.

Alky suggests using a nozzle pre turbo, interesting idea. I may test it. Couple threads down is my build thread if your wondering, Project Stang Bang, New Edge Muscle street build. lol

 

I don't think that I like the idea of a water hitting a compressor blade spinning at 60000 rpm but that is just me I know that there is a lot of people that have done it with luck just not for me

I am also planning on trying to run a couple of the mdra races can weigh 2900 with a 76mm there but they run low 5 all the time

 

How are you guys determining what size nozzle you need? I am Not running an intercooler and thinking about a do it yourself kit as posted. Just not sure how to determine what size nozzles. My engine will never see more than 19lbs of boost and hopefully can reach my goal at 15lbs if that matters. Good thread. Glad to see so many more people on this site giving E85 a chance.

 

I have no idea, this whole meth thing is VERY new to me. When i order my kit, im just gonna ask manufacturer, lol.

 

Who hurt their motors??? oh and also if you're tuning 11.2-11.6 afr on e85 you're way lean. Ethanol has a whole different scale than gasoline.

 

the NACA tests I read,

.2x the volume of fuel in water helped a little,
.4x the volume helped a whole bunch
.6x helped a little bit more.

two 9.4 gph nozzles would be about .5x for you and that is what I would recommend. I would start spraying at 8-10 psi

 

another thing that is not mentioned a lot for racing,

if you look at a water meth log. if you start spraying on the transbrake while building boost, the temp starts to drop instantly. temps are at race level before you even let go of the tb.

with an air to air intercooler, you start building boost on the line and all you are doing is heating up the intercooler. it will take a while after launch before temps come down.

I would like to see a datalog of an a2a pass to see when temps actually cool down. bet its at least a couple of seconds

 

Thanks 71. I got your pm. I like the idea of spraying off the transbrake.

 

Great stuff here 71, makes sense what your saying, ive pretty much made up mind after seeing the things ive seen, the phone calls ive made today.

Im gonna run without the IC and hopefully reap the rewards, lol.

Keep the conversation going too

 

Well dentfix has hurt his several times at low to mid 11's afr and 14-15* on 21psi. Jon(turbotbirds) car has eaten more headgaskets and pistons than any of them, but he is the front runner as we know, because he learns what he did wrong re-builds it and makes it faster each time. John advocates 10.7-11.0 afr on corn no leaner and low timing. He said if the AFR get's any over 11.0 his car usually eats a head gasket or piston. I think a couple other's in dentfix's mod motor blowthrough no i/c E85 camp have hurt motors also.

I learned from Dave(mightmouse) to spray as much methanol as possible while staying in the afr range you want. More the better. It has higher octane, more latent cooling properties and will do more good at higher amounts. Big nozzles, and if you are using an aftermarket ECU that has AFR correction then you just set it on a relay and use your AMS boost controller or Eboost 5v output to trigger it and the ECU will see the drop in AFR from the meth and correct usually faster than you can blink your eye.

71Chevy I too like the idea of spraying meth on the brake, as long as the AFR is correct and still promotes quick spooling. I sprayed meth on my transbrake at first and had to do a little fine tuning on the start amount and start rpm/psi to get it to spool faster and make more boost, but once I did I never saw over 90* on the transbrake.

Also guys, look up Mark Sullens. He is Drag Chevette on YB. His info posted on E85 has been BY FAR the most informative info and makes the most common sense you can wrap your brain around about corn. Hellbent is 110% correct when he says that corn is totally different from alky and gas, and must be treated that way. Look up the facts and myths about E85 thread on YB. Wealth of info in that thread.